The view from the top of the castle

[Mayonnaise]

Then I must be wearing magnifying glasses.

8^P

[ktulu]

Not unless they have bionic sight. I have 20/20 vision (that's perfect btw).

But your flawed brain is taking the "perfect" image of Tinker Bell and blurring it so you can't tell what the hell you're looking at.

[Ho-say]

Nice to know that I could go to the top of the train station and be equal to the top of the castle. Amazing Disney magic there.

Erm, who said it was equal height to the top of the castle? Yeah nobody. What was stated was that it was not much lower. Height of castle = 189 ft. and we know Tink does not take off from the very top spire...and the height of the train station is a little over 100 ft. So yep....not much lower -- nobody said equal. Hhsrat has a wealth of Disney knowledge, much of which he has earned "in the trenches" not too far from Tink's nighly flight :)

Honda Enoch, give it a rest, and admit that there are folks here - several which currently work at MK or did so for several years - that clearly know what they're talking about. Actually, being a CM has nothing to do with it - this has not been a discussion with mixed opinions; everyone else that has posted to this thread seems to disagree with you.

[Disneyguy85]

I'd be fascinated to know why a such a trivial topic about Tinker Bell has turned into such a big deal.
But to get back to one of the original statements; the parks will never resort to using a simple beam of light to represent Tinker Bell; guests would notice and immediately accuse the parks of being cheap.
By using a real person they are putting effort into the show. Plus, being a Disneyland local, I can say that people can totally tell that Tinker Bell is an actual person, and I'm sure that people can tell in WDW, judging from the picture.

Honda Enoch, with all due respect, if you are waiting for others to say to you "You're right, I'm wrong" that is clearly not going to happen.

[Honda Enoch]

Erm, who said it was equal height to the top of the castle? Yeah nobody. What was stated was that it was not much lower. Height of castle = 189 ft. and we know Tink does not take off from the very top spire...and the height of the train station is a little over 100 ft. So yep....not much lower -- nobody said equal. Hhsrat has a wealth of Disney knowledge, much of which he has earned "in the trenches" not too far from Tink's nighly flight :)

Honda Enoch, give it a rest, and admit that there are folks here - several which currently work at MK or did so for several years - that clearly know what they're talking about. Actually, being a CM has nothing to do with it - this has not been a discussion with mixed opinions; everyone else that has posted to this thread seems to disagree with you.

100 feet is MUCH lower the 189 feet. Plenty to make a rip cord work just fine.

and I could care less who agrees or disagrees with who. you cant disagree with FACTS, and the FACTS are that if the take off point is higher then the landing point then a rip cord will work.

Honda Enoch, with all due respect, if you are waiting for others to say to you "You're right, I'm wrong" that is clearly not going to happen.

I and not asking for that and would never expect that from any web forum, as they are all nothing but a clique of people that shun anyone new no mater what.

[Zazu]

...the parks will never resort to using a simple beam of light to represent Tinker Bell; guests would notice and immediately accuse the parks of being cheap.

Apparently you missed the episode when the human Tinker Bell was replaced with a small pyrotechnic devise that spewed green sparks. It was made to fly around the Fantasyland courtyard on three wires. Very lovely effect, and no guest complaints.

Of course, when one of the wires broke the first week, several Pyro techs ran out and stomped the living daylights out of it! That ... generated a few complaints....

[Zazu]

100 feet is MUCH lower the 189 feet. Plenty to make a rip cord work just fine.

To correct a statement made here by many, the Main Street station isn't 100 feet tall. The sign on the south side of it says that the *elevation* is 109 feet. The building is only three stories tall, so perhaps 35-40 feet. This creates a greater difference in height than has been discussed.

Further, Main Street has a marked incline going up to the castle. Not sure how much, but it makes for another flight of stairs between the main Utilidor level and the "drawbridge", which may increase the height difference even more. I say "may" because I do not know what level the height of the castle is measured from.

I could care less who agrees or disagrees with who.

You have made your disdain for the other posters here quite plain. No need to repeat yourself.

you cant disagree with FACTS

Proof once again that you've never worked in the Park and dealt with SGs!

the FACTS are that if the take off point is higher then the landing point then a rip cord will work.

False.

Now you are not just getting onto my Disney turf, you're getting onto my professional turf as an engineer. Listen closely, as this will be on the exam:

Any wire when suspended at two points will take a curve called a "catenary". Laymen would call this a "sag". The amount of sag can be decreased by placing tension on the wire, but that is limited by the strength of the wire and the fixtures at each end. It cannot be brought to zero.

Thus an inclined wire such as we discuss here will certainly have an average slope that is trivial to calculate. Let us stipulate for the sake of argument that the average slope from the castle turret to the Main Street station roof is sufficient to guide Tinker Bell.

Given the shape of the curve that the wire takes, it will be steeper near the castle, and shallower near the station. It is a more complex calculation to determine the minimum slope of the wire, and it is a very complex calculation to determine the minimum slope of the wire with the weight of Tinker Bell suspended from any given point.

Without having done such calculations (or an equivalent experiment) neither you nor I can say that the slope will be sufficient to overcome the rolling resistance of Tinker Bell's rig. Indeed, we can't even say that the slope will remain negative. It is quite possible for the catenary to hit a low point somewhere above Town Square and guarantee Miss Bell an unhappy evening.

What we can do is to use inductive reasoning: The bottom of the wire at present is at an elevation about even with the roof of the station, and markedly closer to it. We have read testimony, and some of us have witnessed, occasions when the slope of the present wire, plus the inertia of the traveling Tink, is insufficient to overcome the friction of the wire, and she has come to a stop short of her landing platform.

It is therefore quite reasonable to conclude that a wire suspended between the castle and station would not be able to sustain her forward motion with sufficient reliability for show purposes.

If you (or anyone else) see a flaw in the engineering analysis above, I welcome the correction.

Honda, if you still don't believe it, I hope you will keep your opinion to yourself. It is not shared, and as demonstrated above, it is not correct.

Honda Enoch, with all due respect, if you are waiting for others to say to you "You're right, I'm wrong" that is clearly not going to happen.

I and not asking for that and would never expect that from any web forum, as they are all nothing but a clique of people that shun anyone new no mater what.

Honda, you've been here for ten months now and have made over 200 posts, so you can't use the excuse that you're "new". This group has welcomed you, listened to you, answered your questions (whether you believed us or not), and permitted you to remain a member of our "clique", despite your penchant for ticking people off.

Perhaps it's time to ask yourself if you're having fun here or not. If not, perhaps it's time for you to recognize that and make the mature decision to discontinue an activity that makes you (and others) unhappy.

[Honda Enoch]

False.

Now you are not just getting onto my Disney turf, you're getting onto my professional turf as an engineer. Listen closely, as this will be on the exam:

Any wire when suspended at two points will take a curve called a "catenary". Laymen would call this a "sag". The amount of sag can be decreased by placing tension on the wire, but that is limited by the strength of the wire and the fixtures at each end. It cannot be brought to zero.

Thus an inclined wire such as we discuss here will certainly have an average slope that is trivial to calculate. Let us stipulate for the sake of argument that the average slope from the castle turret to the Main Street station roof is sufficient to guide Tinker Bell.

Given the shape of the curve that the wire takes, it will be steeper near the castle, and shallower near the station. It is a more complex calculation to determine the minimum slope of the wire, and it is a very complex calculation to determine the minimum slope of the wire with the weight of Tinker Bell suspended from any given point.

Without having done such calculations (or an equivalent experiment) neither you nor I can say that the slope will be sufficient to overcome the rolling resistance of Tinker Bell's rig. Indeed, we can't even say that the slope will remain negative. It is quite possible for the catenary to hit a low point somewhere above Town Square and guarantee Miss Bell an unhappy evening.

What we can do is to use inductive reasoning: The bottom of the wire at present is at an elevation about even with the roof of the station, and markedly closer to it. We have read testimony, and some of us have witnessed, occasions when the slope of the present wire, plus the inertia of the traveling Tink, is insufficient to overcome the friction of the wire, and she has come to a stop short of her landing platform.

It is therefore quite reasonable to conclude that a wire suspended between the castle and station would not be able to sustain her forward motion with sufficient reliability for show purposes.

If you (or anyone else) see a flaw in the engineering analysis above, I welcome the correction.

Honda, if you still don't believe it, I hope you will keep your opinion to yourself. It is not shared, and as demonstrated above, it is not correct.

Zazu. Do me a favor (one atleast). take a board and prop one end up on a book. now put a car at the top facing down, tell me what happens? See, there is this thing called gravity. it pulls things that are higher up, down to a lower area. For this reason if a cable is hooked to a top window of a taller building and "tied off" to a window of a lower building, gravity says that you can slide down that cable.

Honda, you've been here for ten months now and have made over 200 posts, so you can't use the excuse that you're "new".

And you and them have been here a lot longer, making me one of the "new" people.

This group has welcomed you, listened to you, answered your questions (whether you believed us or not), and permitted you to remain a member of our "clique", despite your penchant for ticking people off.

Anyone I am ticking off has the right to not read my post.

Perhaps it's time to ask yourself if you're having fun here or not. If not, perhaps it's time for you to recognize that and make the mature decision to discontinue an activity that makes you (and others) unhappy.

Um.. this is not a theme park. Its a discussion board. I don't come here to have "fun" or not. I come here to discuss things.

I think you need to turn your comment around to the board and say that people that ask questions like "Hey I didn't know the cable went to Tomorrowland. I thought it went to the train station." should not get attacked and belittled and smart ass comments like "if you we're so cheap and actually went inside the park...".

But maybe that is what you all consider "fun". You can't belittle guest in the park. so you "welcome" them to your site so you can belittle them there.

[Disneyguy85]

Apparently you missed the episode when the human Tinker Bell was replaced with a small pyrotechnic devise that spewed green sparks. It was made to fly around the Fantasyland courtyard on three wires. Very lovely effect, and no guest complaints.

Of course, when one of the wires broke the first week, several Pyro techs ran out and stomped the living daylights out of it! That ... generated a few complaints....

Ah...Interesting.

Thanks for the info Zazu.

I guess I'm only familiar with Disneyland and Tinker Bell's flight path in California, me being a local and all.

I have been to WDW, but that was some years ago. One of these days I'll get back there though...

[CujoSR]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

What have your Parents told you about feeding the trolls? DON'T DO IT!


Honda,

I'd like to see you in my office.

-CujoSR