rough

[drcorey]

snorting coke is really rough, those ice cubes are so hard to get down.

[shilohmm]

:stopname:

Crushed ice, man, crushed ice.

[PatchOBlack]

I would think the bubbles would make it hard as well....

[drcorey]

I would think the bubbles would make it hard as well....

nah, thats where the rush comes from.

[Big Wallaby]

I think I gave a new definition for "rough" the other night. Oh, and I may have redefined "cold", too. First, some background. For those of you who hate Star Trek, move on now.

My wife has been participating in an IIRC simulation that takes place in the post-Voyager Star Trek universe for almost as long as I have known her. Over that time I have watched her really enjoy the time doing this each week, and create some wonderful friendships (one guy had two extra tickets to go with him to a Causeway viewing of Atlantis's last launch and invited us... hell, yeah, I'll drop everything and be there... and how exactly do you repay something like that?) so eventually, recently, I got dragged in and love it. Somehow, after only a few months my character on this winds up being the doctor, a place where I feel creative license to do interesting things (and people have believed that I have a medical background because I throw interesting words around... nothing could be further from the truth).

So in the storyline a couple weeks ago, it's a huge war with a pirate fleet. Nasty people, and they decide to board the ship... choosing to beam into Sickbay. Good news, there are a bunch of marines in there already being treated for mostly minor injuries. Bad news? A firefight ensues and so patients are getting pulled off their beds to the floor as quickly as possible (except for one who didn't survive). My doc character gets mad, and since he never carries a phaser in Sickbay, looks around for something that will be... effective. This being a medical center, there is a lot. The closest thing is a couple hyposprays (for those not into Star Trek, think a shot that is delivered painlessly without a needle), drops the medicine that is in them, fills the chambers with nitrogen from the surrounding air, sneaks up behind a couple pirates and injects the contents into the carotids of a couple pirates.

Now, this raises a few questions. First, for DisneyMom, would that work the way that I made it work (nitrogen embolism to the brain, fairly quick form of pacification and pretty instant termination thereafter)? Second, where does the Hippocratic Oath come in in military operations? Third, am I a bad person to think up something like that and have my completely fictional character do it to a bad guy?

Fourth, I see that they have created a modern-day version of the hypospray. Can we get some, put in some horse tranquilizers, and use them to help out the guests that can't be helped? :D:

[BRWombat]

...
Fourth, I see that they have created a modern-day version of the hypospray. Can we get some, put in some horse tranquilizers, and use them to help out the guests that can't be helped? :D:

Hey, yet another real-life application of Star Trek technology! I'm all for it. And maybe the nitrogen thing, too. :twisted:

[shilohmm]

for DisneyMom, would that work the way that I made it work (nitrogen embolism to the brain, fairly quick form of pacification and pretty instant termination thereafter)?

Not DisneyMom, but I know that air bubbles in an an intravenous fluid line are not the sure and immediate death that TV shows would have you believe, so I wondered if a hypospray would give you a big enough air bubble to matter, and turns out it might, at least if used as you describe. The brain is sensitive enough that there can be damage from a bubble that's only a fraction of a milliliter big, while jet injectors can be used for stuff as big as a milliliter across. So damage is very likely, death somewhat less so. It'd be like having a stroke, and the response would depend on where the bubbles hit and how much damage they did.

However, I have my doubts that would happen, because I believe the artery walls are much tougher than skin and I'm not sure they'd be penetrated. Jet injectors are for subcutaneous delivery. Although hyposprays seem to be capable of more immediate impact (meaning they must be hitting a major circulatory system), so who knows?

Second, where does the Hippocratic Oath come in in military operations?

Remember that the Hippocratic Oath has been changed more than once. The original oath was a covenant with a god, prohibited abortion, euthanasia, and surgery(!), and held the person taking the oath accountable, calling down a curse (something like "the opposite of fame and pleasure") on those who broke the oath. I don't know of any modern versions that include all that! Also, not all doctors have taken the oath. In 1928 only a quarter of medical schools still administered the oath; now most do (it got considerably more popular after WW II!), but it's generally a very truncated version, and schools can vary it at will.

Third, am I a bad person to think up something like that and have my completely fictional character do it to a bad guy?

Not unless you want to argue that writers of detective fiction are murderers at heart and Stephen King a monster. :p:

[DisneyMom]

I'll look up the Nitrogen Bubble thing to the brain and return. Does sound like it would give you a stroke of some severity I've learned from some forgotten resource that air bubbles in the (venous) IV need to be at least 20 ml slammed in all at once to be problematic. That is a very large syringe-full, most of the time we use a 3 ml syringe for your flu shot and only give 0.5ml of flu vaccine,for example.
Hypospray injectors ideally could deliver subcutaneous(under the skin) Intramuscular, or Intravenous doses (we are talking about futuristic medicine)
but the problem I see is hitting a carotid artery in a combat situation-too much movement unless victim is held still. Might be easier to give them an injection to the heart :twisted:
Hippocratic Oath goes out the window anytime you fight for your life ;)

[DisneyMom]

A Quick Search reveals that it would indeed give you Stroke Symptoms. In my search I found out that persons with a certain Heart Defect could get Nitrogen bubbles into the Arterial Circulation while diving-Didn't know that but bet Hobie knew ;)

And No, you are no more sick and twisted than the rest of us :twisted:

[drcorey]

I'll look up the Nitrogen Bubble thing to the brain and return. Does sound like it would give you a stroke of some severity I've learned from some forgotten resource that air bubbles in the (venous) IV need to be at least 20 ml slammed in all at once to be problematic. That is a very large syringe-full, most of the time we use a 3 ml syringe for your flu shot and only give 0.5ml of flu vaccine,for example.
Hypospray injectors ideally could deliver subcutaneous(under the skin) Intramuscular, or Intravenous doses (we are talking about futuristic medicine)
but the problem I see is hitting a carotid artery in a combat situation-too much movement unless victim is held still. Might be easier to give them an injection to the heart :twisted:
Hippocratic Oath goes out the window anytime you fight for your life ;)

Worse then shooting cold insulin?
even room temp feel wierd if I have to take over 20 units.