PAC, over stuffing queues & parking

[5th Dimension]

Am I the only one who thinks that the things that they make PAC do is a little crazy? Whats with all this tape on the ground now? I don't remember that happening more than a few years ago. Do we really need arrows in tape on the ground to show us where to go? Is it really necessary to form a human barrier that splits the bridge from Adventureland to the Crystal Palace in half? Firstly, there was NO traffic on the other half, secondly, having about 20-30 people in a line standing in the middle of the bridge slows everyone down as well. Was human traffic SO OUT OF CONTROL in the past that we needed all of this?

Is it really necessary to pack queues SO much that there is no room to move? This happens in Haunted Mansion alot. One stretching room full of people comes out into a already crowded hallway, then the next one comes out, there is someone screaming at everyone to move all the way in. THIS IS NOT NECESSARY! I'd rather wait outside in the queue than be pushed into a tiny little room with a million other people, and some lady screaming in my ear about getting even closer.

Parking is inconvenient when it doesn't need to be. A tent in the Studios cast parking lot that is barley used? And tonight the MK parking lot was full, so they had to call to redirect cars to other mostly full lots. I got tired of waiting for the tram, because they probably have to play the safety spiel (exactly 300 times in it's entirety, without interruptions, before it moves) so I walked. On my way to the TTC, I see that there is AN ENTIRE LOT empty near the front! WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?! On my way out, they have the trams go on the opposite side in which they will travel, holding up another tram on the other side of the bridge, when they could have passed without stopping.

[Zazu]

Am I the only one who thinks that the things that they make PAC do is a little crazy?

No, but I'm not sure the symptoms you list are the craxy part.

Whats with all this tape on the ground now? I don't remember that happening more than a few years ago.

It was a well-established practice when I first started doing PAC in 1999. On light days, that's all we used, skipping the ropes.

Do we really need arrows in tape on the ground to show us where to go?

Well, it does help communicate with those who don't speak English ... or who don't listen well.

Is it really necessary to form a human barrier that splits the bridge from Adventureland to the Crystal Palace in half?

Putting two people on the bridge with flasher bars certainly didn't prevent things from coagulating. When guests have the full width of the bridge, they tend to stop and try to watch from the rail. Narrowing the path and creating one-way traffic tends to help move them along.

Was human traffic SO OUT OF CONTROL in the past that we needed all of
this?

No, but neither was the park often this crowded on a year-round basis. I don't know what the average attendance at the MK is any more, but it certainly seems like it's much higher than the 42k average when I started there. We are also getting more guests from out of the culture. I don't mean just fluency in English, I also mean Americans who are not in the habit of obeying authority figures. Cooperation is way down compared to a decade ago.

Is it really necessary to pack queues SO much that there is no room to move?

Since Phil Holmes became VP of MK, there has been a lot more emphasis on meeting or exceeding the THRC. To do so, most attractions have to overcrowd their pre-shows.

Packing the queue helps loading go faster. I could load a train on the WDW RR faster than many other Conductors because I packed the queue while waiting for the next train, thus when the gates opened, there was a "pressure" that got people onto the platform faster, and fewer were delayed by the turnstiles (which weren't always in an optimal location).

One stretching room full of people comes out into a already crowded hallway, then the next one comes out, there is someone screaming at everyone to move all the way in. THIS IS NOT NECESSARY!

It is if you want this show to run at its design THRC, which was calculated based on 2 persons per Doombuggy and no slowdowns for handicapped boarding.

I'd rather wait outside in the queue than be pushed into a tiny little room with a million other people, and some lady screaming in my ear about getting even closer.

Tell me about it! I have ochlophobia which is exacerbated by such situations. It's why I've spent less time in the MK every year since the capacity push began.

Parking is inconvenient when it doesn't need to be. A tent in the Studios cast parking lot that is barley used?

Costs too much to take it down, patch the paving, then put it back up for the next use. I'll certainly grant that the Studios is now badly designed (due to growing like Topsy for years), but given the loss of cast parking on the west side of the park, the present arrangement seems the best remaining option -- esthetically offensive as I find it to make guests walk past CM parking to get to the gate (here and at AK).

And tonight the MK parking lot was full, so they had to call to redirect cars to other mostly full lots. I got tired of waiting for the tram, because they probably have to play the safety spiel (exactly 300 times in it's entirety, without interruptions, before it moves) so I walked.

I concur. Both the doors and the new requirement that the bilingual spiel be played in its entirety after the last guest boards -- even if they board while the op is shouting "NO FURTHER BOARDING!" -- makes it much faster for me to walk.

On my way to the TTC, I see that there is AN ENTIRE LOT empty near the front! WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?!

Probably limited staffing, but that lot in the southeast corner is used for other activities (such as tram and bus parking), and is only used for guest parking when all other options are unavailable.

On my way out, they have the trams go on the opposite side in which they will travel, holding up another tram on the other side of the bridge, when they could have passed without stopping.

Not having ridden in years, I can't comment on this.

So yeah, a lot of current practices seem pretty crazy. Many have some logic behind them, even if it's just a logical way to deal with some other craziness. I just hope that the added capacity of the new Fantasyland helps ease the crowding ... and that Phil gets tapped to run Shanghai Disneyland.

[Epeyon]

If you were on the Heroes side and the parking lot you saw was Simba, that was empty because it was being used on Sunday for the Princess Marathon staging. They don't use it on Saturday so they can already have it nice and empty. If it was Woody this is a cast parking lot for those of us that work at TTC/Polynesian. If it was Aladdin that is because it is used for handicap and premium parking.

The parking trams do that now because they go to two separate load zones. It makes it a lot faster at the end of the night when they're loading.

What the trams need is a lock on the outside so you can only open the doors from the inside. The CM calls for no further boarding, flips the switch and hits the spiel.

[5th Dimension]

Zazu, alot of your points make sense, I just had a bad night, mostly thanks to a backed up I4. I didn't realize that there are so many more people in the parks than there used to be. And I forgot to remember that much of those people aren't as polite and cooperative as they used to be, and now everyone has to suffer because of it.

I still think that show is more important than numbers. I remember one night trying to leave MK via the ferry, and being packed in like sardines for like 3 boats to come and go, the Haunted Mansion shouldn't remind me of that time :( more people may be in the building, but it's no fun, it's just a bunch of packed in people listening to the safety spiels and seeing another stretching room dump (bad show).

I wish Studios and AK would get backstage parking. Studios could use a new parking garage, next to Coaster (at least 2 stories tall), and AK has quite a bit of space back there that could be used.

Epeyon, I think it was Aladdin, it was right across from Woody, and it was 100% empty. There is premium parking now? Simba is where I was parked.

[kurtisnelson]

No, but neither was the park often this crowded on a year-round basis. I don't know what the average attendance at the MK is any more, but it certainly seems like it's much higher than the 42k average when I started there. We are also getting more guests from out of the culture. I don't mean just fluency in English, I also mean Americans who are not in the habit of obeying authority figures. Cooperation is way down compared to a decade ago.

I'm too lazy to pull out the spreadsheet and run the average, but I don't think it's much more than 42k. Saturdays during average season run about 48k. It's the combination of Fantasyland being plugged up, more fastpass throughput than ever, and an extra ~2k not in toontown. Plus people really, really, love Main St Electrical Parade.

[kurtisnelson]

I wish Studios and AK would get backstage parking. Studios could use a new parking garage, next to Coaster (at least 2 stories tall), and AK has quite a bit of space back there that could be used.

Problem with using the Coaster lot as actual parking or building a garage is twofold:
a) with the backlot neutered, it's the only staging area for special events.
b) the access road back there is already too busy, and the security checkpoint gets way backed up already with just the Feature garage at morning rush hour. Plus you'd then have to cross the park to get to costuming/cast services which would be bad show. They've really just grow themselves into a corner at that park.

[Zazu]

Zazu, alot of your points make sense, I just had a bad night, mostly thanks to a backed up I4.

Hope you didn't think I was jumping your butt. I've found that those points are missed or misunderstood by a lot of people, CMs included. I also hope your next visit is better.

I still think that show is more important than numbers.

So did Walt. SCSE = Safety, Courtesy, Show, Efficiency. Numbers are dead last in that hierarchy.

I wish Studios and AK would get backstage parking. Studios could use a new parking garage, next to Coaster (at least 2 stories tall), and AK has quite a bit of space back there that could be used.

I can understand Mickey's reluctance to build an expensive parking garage (and there's room for at least 3 decks). But I can't think why paving a bit of the already flat ground behind AK would be that big a stretch. They might could pay for it with fewer miles driven by the trams out to the far reaches!

There is premium parking now?

Has been for over a decade. It's called "AAA Diamond Parking", and comes with a trip booked through AAA. It's located right behind handicap parking.

[Zazu]

No, but neither was the park often this crowded on a year-round basis. I don't know what the average attendance at the MK is any more, but it certainly seems like it's much higher than the 42k average when I started there.

I'm too lazy to pull out the spreadsheet and run the average, but I don't think it's much more than 42k. Saturdays during average season run about 48k. It's the combination of Fantasyland being plugged up, more fastpass throughput than ever, and an extra ~2k not in toontown. Plus people really, really, love Main St Electrical Parade.

Interesting. I'll bow to your superior access to the numbers, but I'll stand by my opinion that the crowds are both thicker and less polite.

Here's hoping the expanded Fantasyland will help with at least half of that.

[TdcOgre]

Interesting. I'll bow to your superior access to the numbers, but I'll stand by my opinion that the crowds are both thicker and less polite.

Here's hoping the expanded Fantasyland will help with at least half of that.

Which definition of thicker do you mean?

close-packed with units or individuals <the air was thick with snow>

or

obtuse, stupid <too thick to understand>


:p:

[hobie16]

Which definition of thicker do you mean?

close-packed with units or individuals <the air was thick with snow>

or

obtuse, stupid <too thick to understand>


:p:

My guess? Yes.