Airbus A380 Collision

[hobie16]

This is an amazing video.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ap ... -collision

[Big Wallaby]

I am really curious to see who was in the wrong there. Of course, no matter who was wrong or right, as a pilot one of the things you have to do is make sure your wings are going to clear obstacles all around you, including smaller planes.

Glad no one was hurt.

[Darksin]

It was JFK.. I'm convinced that airport simply has no clue whats going on half the time anyway. LaGuardia isn't much better and for the love of any and all gods avoid Philadelphia at all costs!

Also according to my mother who worked for the airlines for 36 years and was howling with laughter when she saw it. Accidents like this happen plenty of times but often aren't reported on but since everyone now has video and cameras within their cellphones the public is just now finding out about it.

[Big Wallaby]

I can understand planes making contact, to some degree. But that's also one of the first things you are taught in flight training (or at least, one of the first things I was taught). I also understand that that's one thing the ground controller should be looking out for. But at the same time, you should know where your wings end, you should to some degree be able to tell when something is going to be too close, and as the PIC it's up to you to STOP before something like that happens.

Someone with flight experience outside having a CFI in the right seat want to chime in? Am I crazy? Okay, so we know the answer to the second question...

[Disneyguy85]

I heard about this. Crazy stuff.

Glad that no one was hurt.

[CA Screamin Dude]

I've studied many an air disaster, including incursions and collisions on the ground (mostly runways [B747/B747 Tenerife], but taxiways [F-22/CF-18 Tyndall AFB], too). The one constant theme across virtually all disasters, crashes, and collisions is that, generally, no one action is 100% to blame. Generally, a combination of multiple oddities combine to cause the unexpected. At the end of the day, the rule of thumb is the novel concept that a pilot is responsible for his/her aircraft and shall be the end-all when his/her maneuvers alone result in unpleasantness. This doesn't, however, indicate fault, as rarely are one pilot's decisions the sole cause of an incident.

We have at least seven contributing factors here, with many more in the wings (no pun). Here are a few factors, in alphabetical order.

1) Architectural/Design: The A380 in the US requires a taxiway width of 100 feet, as mandated by the FAA. JFK was granted an exemption and allowed to keep their taxiway at 75 feet while handling the A380 aircraft.
2) Human: The flight crew of the A380 failed to establish clearance through the taxiway when passing the CRJ700 aircraft.
3) Human: The flight crew of the CRJ700 aircraft failed to advance to the designated hold short line past the taxiway.
4) Human: ATC Ground failed to issue proper clearances to avoid contact.
5) Human: A potential airport ground motorist failed to yield to the CRJ700, causing it to hold short of the designated line.
6) Weather: Low visibility conditions prevented crews and ATC from seeing their surroundings.
7) Weather: Wet conditions caused crews to see too many reflected lights, causing confusion on deck.

[Big Wallaby]

And with that, the whole thing makes a lot more sense. I am positive there is more that I don't know, but that gives my mind enough to process what I am seeing there.

I would love to see the previous 30 seconds that led up to the moment caught on that camera.

[Main Streeter]

And with that, the whole thing makes a lot more sense.

BW, if CA Screamin states facts or gives his opinion, we can most always take it to the bank. I learned this while working with him & from his position now.

[hobie16]

I've studied many an air disaster...

Very analytical response. A friend is the chief pilot for Southwest in Phoenix. He described a near miss midair he flew away from on final into Sky Harbor. He did say every accident/collision will have multiple causes. In his case it was:

Version 1 of software in his 737

Student pilot

Student ATC

Even though it was the first release the software saved him, and the rest of the souls on board, by suddenly announcing, "PULL UP NOW! PULL UP NOW!"

The later versions now announce anything within a five mile bubble.

[Darksin]

I don't know much about air disasters or planes other then what I've picked up from years of hanging around airports and airline employees with my mom. I do know a lot of older pilots dislike the Airbuses for various reasons, the main one I can remember is they don't handle like a traditional airplane and have a completely different feel. Perhaps there is also something in regards to the very size and visibility that could play into this.

Just an idea.