What is up with the busses?

[Chucky]

I debated posting this at all, because I am sure you guys and gals don't really want to here any crap over here. But I am getting worried, and I want to ask you a few questions about busses.

Over on Disney Board x, there have been a few posts about both park busses and ME busses that have me worried. And I would like to know what I am supposed to do if I ever witness this kind of behavior.

Today, in the middle of a huge argument about who "deserves" seats on the park busses, one lady told a story designed to point out the lack of manners. Only problem was it was a ME bus on the way to the airport, and the driver was a former Marine, who had a "no man left behind" philosophy. Even though it meant some kids had to sit 2 to a seat, and some people had to stand. :( I'm sure that is not supposed to happen on ME busses, but maybe I am wrong?

My second post which has caused me concern has to do with people in scooters/wheelchairs getting ignored or left behind by park bus drivers. That post was a couple of weeks old, but I thought I would ask. Seems there have been a few park bus drivers telling people in wheelchairs/scooters that they had to wait for another bus, even when there was a place for them on that bus. Apparently some drivers just don't want to deal with the scooters. I could hardly believe that post, because I have never witnessed that sort of behavior from a CM. You guys are usually so willing to help, that I was truly shocked! What is going on? New drivers, or is something else afoot?

What should I do if I witness any bad bus driver behavior while on my trip this month? I have only had 1 bad experience a couple of years ago, with a ME driver who kept tooting his horn and hitting his breaks. I didn't report him, though I wish I had. Is there a number I can call while I am at Disney?

I hope this post hasn't upset you, because far and away the majority of you do a great job! But instead of asking over at Board x, I thought I would ask those who really know what I should do!

[Cranbiz]

I can't speak about ME as that is contracted to Mears and is a seperate operation from bus ops at the parks. However, I would think that standing on a ME bus from MCO to WDW would not be an accepted practice.

On the park buses, I believe I can speak on with some authority.

There are only three situations where a guest on a scooter / wheelchair can be left behind. If one of these three situations happen it is the drivers responsibility to call a coordinator for another bus ASAP.

First situation would be if the lift is out of service. This is considered a non handicap bus and the stickers should have been removed by maintenance. This will occur occasionally and the bus can be operated until repairs have been made.

Second situation is when the bus has reached capacity before getting to the HC guest. If the bus is SRO at the time of pickup, the chair can be denied entry. Again the driver is susposed to call for another bus to start pickup at that stop to accomodate the HC guest.

The third situation would be if a Pooh sized guest exceeds the capacity of the lift on a lift style bus. In this case the driver will call a coordinator and request a low floor bus to come and service the guest.

In all the above cases, the issue should be communicated with the guest and if possible, the radio call is done with the guest within earshot.

If you run into a driver that will not transport a HC guest because "they don't feel like it" please find any manager and report this driver ASAP. Get the drivers name and bus number, the date, time and location.

You can also call 407-WDW-RIDE to reach the transportation department.

[TalkingHands]

I can't speak about ME as that is contracted to Mears and is a seperate operation from bus ops at the parks. However, I would think that standing on a ME bus from MCO to WDW would not be an accepted practice.

On the park buses, I believe I can speak on with some authority.

There are only three situations where a guest on a scooter / wheelchair can be left behind. If one of these three situations happen it is the drivers responsibility to call a coordinator for another bus ASAP.

First situation would be if the lift is out of service. This is considered a non handicap bus and the stickers should have been removed by maintenance. This will occur occasionally and the bus can be operated until repairs have been made.

Second situation is when the bus has reached capacity before getting to the HC guest. If the bus is SRO at the time of pickup, the chair can be denied entry. Again the driver is susposed to call for another bus to start pickup at that stop to accomodate the HC guest.

The third situation would be if a Pooh sized guest exceeds the capacity of the lift on a lift style bus. In this case the driver will call a coordinator and request a low floor bus to come and service the guest.

In all the above cases, the issue should be communicated with the guest and if possible, the radio call is done with the guest within earshot.

If you run into a driver that will not transport a HC guest because "they don't feel like it" please find any manager and report this driver ASAP. Get the drivers name and bus number, the date, time and location.

You can also call 407-WDW-RIDE to reach the transportation department.

One of the problems is some (not all) just refuse to communicate with the person in the wheelchair, load the able bodied people and leave. It is as if you are a non-person.
Also there are drivers that just plain lie. Tell you they are full but it is obvious they are not. Or they will tell you they will radio in but the bus still doesn't come for 30 or more minutes.
And I can't tell you the number of drivers who refuse to put down the lift until I turn my PWC to back on. Sorry since I can't hear it touch I need to see it touch and then I willturn and back on. They don't know I have a hearing problem. Voice isn't visual from a distance. Close up one to one I speech read. Farther away I need visual cues. I know you are talking but really don't know what you are saying. The ramp buses are really better because I can go on the front wise without a problem.

[Goofyernmost]

One of the problems is some (not all) just refuse to communicate with the person in the wheelchair, load the able bodied people and leave. It is as if you are a non-person.
Also there are drivers that just plain lie. Tell you they are full but it is obvious they are not. Or they will tell you they will radio in but the bus still doesn't come for 30 or more minutes.
And I can't tell you the number of drivers who refuse to put down the lift until I turn my PWC to back on. Sorry since I can't hear it touch I need to see it touch and then I willturn and back on. They don't know I have a hearing problem. Voice isn't visual from a distance. Close up one to one I speech read. Farther away I need visual cues. I know you are talking but really don't know what you are saying. The ramp buses are really better because I can go on the front wise without a problem.

Although, I certainly can believe that this can happen, I don't think it can be an ongoing problem or wide range. ADA will absolutely massacre a company that intentionally and without cause, refuse a person with a handicap. BTW, according to the rules, if a legitimate situation arises, such as a bus that already has the two securement stations in use, they have a maximum of 30 minutes to get another vehicle out to pick them up.

As for the loading situation, the laws of physics apply hear. You don't want the heaviest part of the load out on the far end of the lift ramp. This puts unbelievable stress on the lift parts and can be catastrophic if the lift should happen to let go, dropping the person and the scooter to the ground. Trust me, you do not want that to happen. Might I suggest that you either have someone with you that can explain that you also have a hearing problem or perhaps a sign of some sort that lets the driver know that you cannot hear them. I know that the "new" thing is that it is some how shameful to broadcast ones "challenges", but, surely you don't expect the driver to know that you have a hearing loss just by looking at you. I have never met a driver anywhere yet that will intentionally and for no reason deny access or refuse to help. There usually is much, much more to the story.

If a driver is reported, more than once, of refusing to carry a person in a wheelchair, motorized or regular or a scooter, you can bet that Disney will react real fast against the driver, as well they should.

[Cranbiz]

All mobility devices (chairs / scooters) are susposed to be loaded first, period.

The driver should put the lift down and direct the guest on how to proceed on the lift, there should not be a delay waiting for the guest to get in the proper position.

This is how ALL drivers are trained. Now once they are on their own, I know things change, and if a guest does not report drivers who are not following proper procedures, then things can't be fixed.

I'm not defending the lazy drivers. Please don't lump all of us together.

Tonight, I broke several rules to accomodate two large guests on scooters while driving an RTS (bus with lift). Why, because guest service is number one with me. I won't get into what I did here as I don't want to to come back and bite me, but lets just say that I did whatever I had to do to load both scooters which may have included lift and loading procedures.

[Big Wallaby]

I've been looking at the disABILITIES forum, it's one of the few that I frequently watch, and there have been quite the number of complaints about bus drivers and ECV's. I also get them live on the Monorail platform, and I have directed people to the WDW RIDE number myself.

If one of these three situations happen it is the drivers responsibility to call a coordinator for another bus ASAP.

And hopefully the coordinator will send a bus immediately to that stop and not just on the general run. That's something I've seen drivers run into at the All Star Resorts, where a guest in a PowerChair is at Movies, and a bus comes too full to load them. They call for another bus, so the coordinator sends that bus to all the ASR and by the time that bus gets to Movies they are full, lather, rinse, repeat. I know of guests who, because the coordinator doesn't want to send a bus directly there, wind up waiting over an hour as buses go by that were sent there for them. :mad:

In all the above cases, the issue should be communicated with the guest and if possible, the radio call is done with the guest within earshot.

If you don't do it with them within earshot, you didn't do it.

If you run into a driver that will not transport a HC guest because "they don't feel like it" please find any manager and report this driver ASAP. Get the drivers name and bus number, the date, time and location.

You can also call 407-WDW-RIDE to reach the transportation department.

It's not a rare thing lately. There are even signs up at TTC letting drivers know it's their job. When I was driving, there was no question to me that it was my job, and it didn't matter how I felt. I can't stand some of the new stock they have driving buses. Watching how some of them treat guests, I can't help but refer to them as stock, or heads of bus driver. Please note, this does not apply to all those who wear the purple pants, like Cranbiz (by the way, I went up the hill looking for you Saturday night... I'll have to do it again). Sadly, Cranbiz is turning more and more into the minority. I'm telling you, with the computer system being the friendly thing on board instead of the driver, it's giving drivers a lot of leeway to be unfriendly and downright rude.

There are some drivers that I see several times a week and I have never seen them smile to each other or guests.

Also there are drivers that just plain lie. Tell you they are full but it is obvious they are not.

I've seen it more than once.

BTW, according to the rules, if a legitimate situation arises, such as a bus that already has the two securement stations in use, they have a maximum of 30 minutes to get another vehicle out to pick them up.

At Disney, there's no reason it shouldn't be under 15 minutes.

All mobility devices (chairs / scooters) are susposed to be loaded first, period....This is how ALL drivers are trained. Now once they are on their own, I know things change, and if a guest does not report drivers who are not following proper procedures, then things can't be fixed.

I'm not defending the lazy drivers. Please don't lump all of us together.

I never would lump you with some of the gems I see out there. One day, I am going to drive around with a video camera...

Tonight, I broke several rules to accomodate two large guests on scooters while driving an RTS (bus with lift). Why, because guest service is number one with me. I won't get into what I did here as I don't want to to come back and bite me, but lets just say that I did whatever I had to do to load both scooters which may have included lift and loading procedures.

My only caution there would be that you might then not be able to get them down once they're up. Otherwise, kudos.

Please note, my comments here are not about all bus drivers at Disney World... but it does seem that between the new crop and several of the crotchety old drivers, there is a lot to be desired.

There was a sign up about MiMs and how there have been difficulties, but guest complaints are within tolerance. I am quite curious what the tolerances are? The things I hear all the time from guests would tell me otherwise... but then, I am never asked.

[Cranbiz]

like Cranbiz (by the way, I went up the hill looking for you Saturday night... I'll have to do it again).

Figures, I was there last night. Saturday night I got stuck at Studios. Just what I love to do, sit in the stripes for hours on end.

BW, I know what you mean and will never think that you would lump me in with those other drivers.

The current hiring practices emphasize breathing over customer service skills. Way too many drivers should not be drivers for faults like poor people skills as well as driving skills. Look at the increases in Signal 4's around propety and guest complaints.

My only caution there would be that you might then not be able to get them down once they're up. Otherwise, kudos.

That's why we have RCFD to help in those situations.

[Notatourist]

I hate to ask this Cranbiz, but is it possible that there is a language barrier on what the procedures are?

[Cranbiz]

Unless work is a foreign language, no I can't blame it on a language problem.

Each driver is given instruction in wheelchair procedures in transition training. It's show and tell. If you can't understand english, then the learn by doing method should work.

Then again, if you can't understand or speak english, you are not susposed to be a bus driver.

[TalkingHands]

As for the loading situation, the laws of physics apply hear. You don't want the heaviest part of the load out on the far end of the lift ramp. This puts unbelievable stress on the lift parts and can be catastrophic if the lift should happen to let go, dropping the person and the scooter to the ground. Trust me, you do not want that to happen. Might I suggest that you either have someone with you that can explain that you also have a hearing problem or perhaps a sign of some sort that lets the driver know that you cannot hear them. I know that the "new" thing is that it is some how shameful to broadcast ones "challenges", but, surely you don't expect the driver to know that you have a hearing loss just by looking at you. I have never met a driver anywhere yet that will intentionally and for no reason deny access or refuse to help. There usually is much, much more to the story.

First the laws of physics are not an issue with my Jazzy 1103 as it is a center wheel controlled PWC. Weight is directly under the operator. I am not in an ECV where that would be an issue.
I do inform the driver that I have a hearing loss. Problem is my speech. As I am late deafened, my speech is quite clear and there is an assumption that because my speech is clear my hearing is good. Since I am not profoundly deaf it is more of a challenge than someone who has a moderate hearing loss and prefers to go without hearing aides in the parks. The molds tend to pop out if it is hot and I am sweaty and replacing them is not cheap and they are necessary for my work as a sign language interpreter.
As to having someone with me. My dh also has a hearing loss so he isn't much help and we travel together or I just head out alone and let him join me later. Might try the sign though. I could make one and laminate it.