Wallaby won't tell you so I will

[Zazu]

No, the hardest part is having the fire put out on the 2% grade, having to get it lit again and then start out with no wheel slip, fully loaded train with the tracks wet from recent rain.

Not really. The boiler pressure will stay high enough to keep the train rolling for several minutes after the fire goes out, and it's no harder to relight on the grade.

If the train *does* stop on the grade -- which it does every trip because it's a 2% upgrade right through the Toontown Station -- and espeically at Toontown because that's where the locos are lubed every four hours -- getting started on wet rail can be a real challenge for an engineer, especially on the Roy.

But the biggest challenge for an engineer is to look ahead as you come around a bend to see a stopped train where there isn't supposed to be one. There's a specific sequence of steps one takes to stop a train as fast as possible, and you need to do them in the right order to keep from breaking something. Doing that, while maintaining a Disney vocabulary and keeping a smile on your face despite having "full pants" is the real challenge!

[felinefan]

Zazu, did you here what happened out here--the Metrolink crash? Twenty-five dead, including an LAPD officer, 135 injured, some critically. It went into a blind curve and hit a freight, telescoping the engine into one of the passenger cars. Ironically, one of the survivors was riding and talking to a fellow passenger who'd survived the 2005 Metrolink crash (the one where the idiot parked his SUV on the tracks); he was telling what he'd gone through when the incident occurred. Fortunately he and the other passenger survived. Here's the link:
http://www.metrolinktrains.com/emergency/ .

[Zazu]

Zazu, did you here what happened out here--the Metrolink crash?

Word on the rails is that the engineer missed a red signal because he was texting. Criminal behavior, if true. He should be resurrected and hung.

[Big Wallaby]

Word on the rails is that the engineer missed a red signal because he was texting. Criminal behavior, if true. He should be resurrected and hung.

Or re-killed in a manner that allows you to revive him repeatedly and put him back out until he just won't wake up any more. When they think he's getting close to his limit, do something *really* painful to finish him.

The Text message that killed 25 people. I hope it was important enough for that.

[felinefan]

Well, they're still investigating. His co-workers say he was very professional, worked for Amtrak for several years before working for Veolia (Metrolink engineers). They think he may have hit a dead zone, because when they got the black boxes, he missed the last signal, and there was no communication between the conductor and the engineer that last time. I would think that if he was texting, wouldn't they have found a Blackberry near him when they recovered his body? Now they think he may have had a heart attack or stroke. I hope that kid who said he was texting the engineer during the ride wasn't just saying that to make himself look important, because if he did and it was found he distracted the engineer, that kid is gonna be dead meat!

California is a state--maybe the only one--that allows Metrolink and Amtrak to use the same tracks as freight trains. I've read the train operations reports before on Metrolink, and quite often they get held up by a freight blocking their way. And not just on the Ventura County line, either. I think they need to add more trackage-- one set for freight, one for public transportation.

There's a book that was published in the mid-80s titled "Train Wrecks", and it gives a history of notable train accidents from the 1830s the the 1980s. There was one really eerie one back East--a train was going over a bridge, and the signalman saw the engineer wave to him, as he always did. But the bridge was open for river traffic, the train went through the opening in the bridge and fell into the river. After the engineer's and fireman's bodies were recovered and autopsied, the engineer had had a heart attack, but what made it eerie was that according to the investigation, he should have been dead when he passed the signalman's station and waved. But when they re-examined the evidence, it came out the wave was the last thing the engineer did on this earth. They think he may have fallen across the controls and sent the train speeding towards the gap in the bridge, and was dead when he hit the water. The fireman drowned. I know the Orange main library has a copy of it; maybe you can find a copy on Ebay or Amazon or something. Interesting book.

[glendalais]

Really sad incident. I just found out that the Guidance Counselor who helped me through some rough times when I was in Middle School is among the dead :( .

If it's true that the Engineer was texting while driving (do you 'drive' a train, or is there another word?), that would be the ultimate SET, IMO.

I mean, it only takes common sense to realise that if texting while driving a 2 tonne car at 70 km/hr is extremely dangerous, than doing the same while driving a 7000 tonne train going at speeds up to 140 km/hr is just idiotic.

[Zazu]

Well, they're still investigating.

Very true. My remarks were an angry reaction to a rumor, and may well be far off base.

I would think that if he was texting, wouldn't they have found a Blackberry near him when they recovered his body?

I'm guessing you've never worked a train wreck that included a fire. Finding a small piece of electronic gear amid the mayhem is a herculean task.

Now they think he may have had a heart attack or stroke.

Nope, modern locomotives have a "deadman system" to detect when an engineer passes out. Too long without moving and the system sounds an alarm, and if it's not responded to promptly the train brakes go into emergency. There's no sign of that happening.

California is a state--maybe the only one--that allows Metrolink and Amtrak to use the same tracks as freight trains.

Untrue. Passenger and freight trains share the tracks almost everywhere they operate. I believe the Northeast Corridor, from Washington to Boston, is the only place they do not.

I think they need to add more trackage-- one set for freight, one for public transportation.

It won't prevent this sort of problem. In fact, the carnage could have been twice as bad if this train had hit another full of passengers. The presence of freight trains isn't an aggravating factor in this wreck.

What *would* prevent this sort of wreck is installation of an "Automatic Train Stop" system. ATS requires equipment at each signal and on each locomotive that forces the train to stop if it runs a stop signal. The cost for the signal part of the system is pretty minor. The cost to equip passenger locomotives is manageable, but freight railroads have resisted the call to equip every last loco that might run on track shared with passenger trains.

There's somewhat more sophisticated system being proposed, "Positive Train Control". PTC kicks in not only when running a stop signal, but also when passing any control point at greater than permitted speed. Advocates include the National Association of Railroad Passengers. (normally http://www.narp.org, but presently offline due to heavy traffic. Try again in a few days.)

There's a book that was published in the mid-80s titled "Train Wrecks", and it gives a history of notable train accidents from the 1830s the the 1980s. ... Interesting book.

And a miserable collection of horror photos and rehashed newspaper reports it is. It's one of the handful of books I used to keep on a special "beware of this book" shelf when I ran a railroad history library.

Talk to a railroader or read the NTSB Accident Reports online at http://www.ntsb.gov/railroad/railroad.htm. The real cause of the Chattsworth wreck will likely be posted there in six to ten months.

[felinefan]

Thanks for the info, Zazu. I completely forgot about the deadman switch. You may criticize "Train Wrecks", but it also points out how, from the very beginning, the railroads have resisted putting in safety features. The train at Knott's still has the handbrakes between every car, but they're inoperable; the train has airbrakes. I remember there was another train wreck at another place called Chatsworth, but in that case, a crew had been burning underbrush near a wooden railroad bridge, failed to check to make sure the fire was completely out, and the bridge burned down just as the train was approaching. I remember reading another couple of books, "Scalded to Death by the Steam", plus there was another one but I forget the title.

But there's another side to ending deaths by train--getting people to understand that it's illegal and dangerous for them to cross the tracks, or attempt to beat the train. The Operation Lifesaver site, http://www.oli.org, has great materials; they should run the PSAs out here, as well as run ads in the media--newspaper, magazine, and online.

[Main Streeter]

You should loan him a horse unless you're afraid it'll end up like the one in Cat Ballou.

darph & a horse? My Horse? NOT!!! My horse cost more than darph!! Would be far worse than Cat Ballou! Actually darph has fallen deeper economically. Doesn't even get "just one." :D: Is in debt to me 3 pages of stamps, a huge mailer envelope, & contents. I'm darph's AAA. ;) :)

[Big Wallaby]

During drive training, I was joking with my trainer about how much the Monorails are designed to distrust the driver. The MAPO system works great, sort of like the system Zazu was mentioning where, you pass a signal, the train e-brakes.

I understand exactly the reason Disney has designed their Monorails to not trust the driver; this is it.