party entertainment companies - copyright violations?

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

(redacted)
My biggest problem is the idea that these untrained people are going out as these characters, and what happens if they completely botch the character for these kids, or worse cause some sort of a bad memory that makes the children they are making their money off of (okay, the childrens' parents, same difference) are forever scared of Disney characters?

I would not mind these companies creating their own characters... In fact, by doing so they would have a character they completely control, they could have the story time where the character tells her story, it could be very memorable if done correctly.

Now that is a heckva good point. If they DID create their own "princess" based on the "generic" story/fable I would imagine that there would be little or no recourse for Disney to take exception.

(FYI I agree with the general concensus that I would NOT want them playing a Disney princess, for all the reasons many posters have stated!)

It is an interesting discussion. I remember several years ago, the next door neighboor had a birthday party for their little girl. Pocahontas showed up, and I will admit that she LOOKED like the Disney version. in fact, a LOT of the dads noticed it too!! (she was, ummmm, more MATURE) she gave the girls a history lesson, they opened presents and all got to put on a headress, sang happy Birthday and so forth.

And it was not an off the rack costume, it had to have been made for her!

never asked where they located her or what company she worked for.

[Big Wallaby]

Pocahontas showed up, and I will admit that she LOOKED like the Disney version. in fact, a LOT of the dads noticed it too!! (she was, ummmm, more MATURE) she gave the girls a history lesson, they opened presents and all got to put on a headress, sang happy Birthday and so forth.

And it was not an off the rack costume, it had to have been made for her!

Alright, I am probably going to sound like I am contradicting myself, and maybe I am. Try to keep up.

One of the things I like that Disney does, when they take a character from a fable or history, while staying mostly historically accurate, they change enough aspects of the character and storyline that it becomes their own story and character. In Pocahontas, Disney did make changes to her clothing compared to what the real person of Pocahontas would have worn, but I would imagine there is also good deal of similarity. I guess I would ask was the person you saw dressed more toward the traditional or Disney version? Did your Pocahontas make any reference to Disney's characters that they added in for their version of the story, such as the animals?

Pocahontas would be an extremely interesting character to use in my opinion, because Disney doesn't own the rights to history, and Pocahontas (or Sacajawea, or many of the other characters Disney has used, such as Cinderella) could be portrayed more historically and I would not have a problem. Disney did things with almost all of the characters they've used from history or fable, that has made the Disney version very different from the original story, and in my mind that allows them to take ownership of their version of the character (Pinochio not being a completely bad little boy and having a conscience cricket, Ariel having a happy ending, Cinderella wearing glass slippers, Robin Hood being a fox, etc.) and to defend their ownership of that character they created from the original.

If Disney comes out with a movie about a historical or fabled character, I see nothing wrong with capitalizing on that if you're running a character company, as long as you are bringing in your own version (or as historically accurate as you know how to make, markedly different from the Disney version, etc.) of that character. If you are playing that character, I would even be okay with discussing the Disney version and the differences between your and the Disney version (so long as you do it with tact and respect for Disney's ability to weave a wonderful story). I understand that what I am suggesting would not be easy.

There you have my opinion in a nutshell on this. I am really curious whether you agree or disagree with what I've said here.

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

Hmmm.

Well, first off, I admit that I like the Disney versions of the tales/fables. And I did let my children, and now grandchildren watch them, and I prefer that they see the Disney versions.

Only when they are older, they can read and understand the original story(s)
as some of them, like you pointed out, do not have as good and end as the Disney version! (little mermaid, or one of the versions of Cinderella, and so forth)

I understand the copyright and license violations, having assisted in enforcing those very laws in the past (not only Disney, but Microsoft, Beany babies, and so on) and absoutely support the idea that any company not only has the right, but should enforce that right to IPR and copyright/licensed protection.

The problem is that, as you pointed out BW, when the companies are not using an image or product exactly like the IPR protected one, then a judge has to determine if a violation has been committed.

And most small companies cannot support that type of litigation expense.

[Ms. Matterhorn]

Ok, I'm curious and I'll admit I've never read the original Little Mermaid. What happens?

[Tara_Lee3]

The upshot of it is...

When she gets her legs every step she takes feels like she's walking on knives. In the end, because she doesn't have her voice, she can't convince the prince of her identity and he chooses the wrong princess.

The mermaid returns to the sea and dissolves into the foam atop the waves, never to sing again.

As near as I can remember... anyway. I may have missed a couple details.

[felinefan]

I've read the original Pinnochio, and there's no Jiminy Cricket, though Foulfellow and Gideon trick Pinnochio until he figures out what's going on. I forget how it happened, but in the end Pinnochio ends up in jail, until the king sets the prisoners free on Christmas Day. At first Pinnochio is told he is not going to be released, until Pinnichio says that he also is a criminal, whereupon the jailer opens the cell door and lets him escape. Also, in the beginning, Geppetto is a woodworker, not specifically a toymaker; he is about to make a tableleg with the piece of wood, but hears a voice begging him not to cut the wood. But eventually, Geppetto ends up carving Pinnochio, who starts out as a bad boy until he gets into trouble. Then he promises to be good and starts off to school until he's waylaid by Foulfellow and Gideon.

I also remember reading in Ripley's Believe It Or Not about the origin of the story of Cinderella. It goes back to ancient Egypt, and is a simple story. The princess of Lower Egypt was bathing in the Nile one day, and looked up in time to see a hawk carry off one of her slippers. When the hawk dropped it, it landed in the lap of the Pharoah of Upper Egypt, as he sat dispensing royal justice. He was intrigued by the small size of the slipper, and sent out messengers to find its owner. When the princess was located and brought to the Pharoah, he fell in love with her and married her. The slipper was made of fur, so the hawk picked it up thinking it was prey. About 250 years ago, a French linguist came across the story in a papyrus, and translated the story from Egyptian into French. Later an English linguist found the French translation, and in translating it from French to English, he mistook the French word for fur, "vair", for the French word for glass, "verre". As a result, the story was expanded on, and Cinderella and her "glass" slipper have been inseperable since.

[drcorey]

I say it comes down to the same thing as a software license. With that license, you are allowed to use the software, and that copy is yours, but the software itself is not. You cannot modify the software and then sell it as your own, unless you completely reverse engineer it and rebuild it from the ground up with key differences the entire way (see the differences between Microserf Office and the Sun equivilent) to where that software you bought was merely inspiration for your similar software.

My biggest problem is the idea that these untrained people are going out as these characters, and what happens if they completely botch the character for these kids, or worse cause some sort of a bad memory that makes the children they are making their money off of (okay, the childrens' parents, same difference) are forever scared of Disney characters?

I would not mind these companies creating their own characters... In fact, by doing so they would have a character they completely control, they could have the story time where the character tells her story, it could be very memorable if done correctly.

There's also the matter of whom Disney chooses to assist the face characters. I'm sorry, but a dark-skinned Belle just doesn't fit, much like a pasty white Jasmine would be bad... and I saw both on those sites.

For me, it is completely a question of quality control. I don't know what these people are saying or doing when they are trying to be the characters, and for that reason I am against them having the ability to go out as Disney characters.

thats what Disney is afraid of, people stomping thier images to crap.
i.e. killing all thier good images.
How about a slutty sleeping beauty that smoked and cussed like a sailor?
that would pretty well kill Aurora for Disney. no more little girl fans for her.

as for jasmine, I saw a mexican looking one at the parks once.

[Canuikstan]

thats what Disney is afraid of, people stomping thier images to crap.
i.e. killing all thier good images.
How about a slutty sleeping beauty that smoked and cussed like a sailor?
that would pretty well kill Aurora for Disney. no more little girl fans for her.

as for jasmine, I saw a mexican looking one at the parks once.

My ex Mother in law bought my 7 year old the Sleeping Beauty series of books from Anne Rice...



Look em up..

(and no they didn't end up on her bookshelf...)

[Sarah Magdalene]

I also remember reading in Ripley's Believe It Or Not about the origin of the story of Cinderella. It goes back to ancient Egypt, and is a simple story. The princess of Lower Egypt was bathing in the Nile one day, and looked up in time to see a hawk carry off one of her slippers. When the hawk dropped it, it landed in the lap of the Pharoah of Upper Egypt, as he sat dispensing royal justice. He was intrigued by the small size of the slipper, and sent out messengers to find its owner. When the princess was located and brought to the Pharoah, he fell in love with her and married her.

Oh I LOVE that!!! It's a lovely story!