Board X Stupidity (again...)

[Theme Park Where]

Sorry Shorty, but you and I disagree on the unions. I kind of feel that the unions are actually part of the problem. Disney has in the past negotiated some very fair contracts. The unions turned them down, demanding more. Disney is now only following the letter of the contract. There's no consideration for the employees. Only the contract matters.

Universal is non-union and I do see a difference. They still don't pay well, but there are more considerations for changes and more of a feeling that they are doing things because they appreciate their employees and not just because a union has told them they have to. That doesn't mean that there aren't problems that a union wouldn't help. We do have employees who feel that they are dismissed without cause, or problems with managers who don't take employee concerns seriously, but for the most part we don't have to threaten to bring in a union rep when we have a grievance. If our immediate manager won't help, there are other departments who will.

[Shorty82]

I'll be honest, I only know what I've heard about the unions and I've heard that the reasons I gave are part of the problem.

[Theme Park Where]

I know unions have a place, but I have to admit, the couple of militantly non-union places I've worked have in the long run been less stressful environments than the union places. I did use Disney's union once, when we had a safety issue that our direct reports wouldn't address. We worked third shift at Caribbean Beach and had to park all the way in the back of the cm parking lot - which was very dark. We couldn't see our vehicles from the front desk area, and one of the people working there had their car broken into a couple of times. We complained and requested to park closer to the building since the lot was nearly empty overnight. We were told no. We did it anyway after the second car was broken into and were ticketed. We called in a union rep to fight the tickets. The rep ended up getting the policy changed so we could park closer AND got additional lighting and security patrols for the parking lot for those working late but not overnight. It was terrific that the union was able to represent us, but it would have been even better if Disney had wanted us to be safe and wouldn't have required the union to push them into doing so. A similar situation happened at another non-union hotel, and the hotel management hired off duty police officers to ensure that our vehicles and we were safe. They did it because they knew it was the right thing to do, and not because they had to or face union action. Somehow that seems better in my mind.

[Elena (aka: Bubble Lady)]

Here it is...

Thanks Grumpy...I was wondering if anyone was going to notice ;)

[font="Palatino Linotype"]it looks just like you...of course, i didn't see you in a uniform [/font] :)

[CMGUY89]

LOL, Thanks Elena...

The Union has caused nothing but problems for me. I have been BEGGING to get cross-trained, and because of union rules they will not do it. Now I am finally going full-time and they are going to cross-train me. Plus there are some union reps that get away with murder and they can't be touched...

If the union didn't want me because I was seasonal and my work wasn't valued you'll have to forgive me if I'm not exactly running to join them now.

Frankly I think the unions encourage mediocrity in CM performance. If you are a hard worker with a great Guest Service history and someone with a less than stellar history but more seniority want the same thing, they will get it simply because they've been around longer.

[PapaMouse]

Here it is...
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=299921
Thanks Grumpy...I was wondering if anyone was going to notice ;)

I don't want to start a board war. but I just wanted to say it figures. I left that board a long time ago due to the SG's there.

[Zazu]

The Union has caused nothing but problems for me. I have been BEGGING to get cross-trained, and because of union rules they will not do it.

It's not Union Rules, it's the provisions of the contract. The Union should only get half the blame for them.

Plus there are some union reps that get away with murder and they can't be touched....

Yup, I've seen this. CS management if you ask me.

If the union didn't want me because I was seasonal and my work wasn't valued you'll have to forgive me if I'm not exactly running to join them now.

Hold on, this is just unfair. The Unions aren't *permitted* to let seasonal cast join. For years, we part-timers couldn't either. As soon as part-timers could join, we were welcomed and treated the same as the full-timers. Again, don't put all the blame on the Unions for the Contract provisions.

Frankly I think the unions encourage mediocrity in CM performance.

No, mediocrity is encouraged by management who either don't know what good show is or don't care. A Union situation can result in there being minimum standards set, and some individuals will perform only to those minimums. I've never heard a negative word at Disney for trying to exceed those minimum standards, though I have seen it elsewhere.

If you are a hard worker with a great Guest Service history and someone with a less than stellar history but more seniority want the same thing, they will get it simply because they've been around longer.

Yes, this is called "seniority". It sucks, but it sucks less than the favoritism that might rule if it didn't exist. When I worked on Main Street, it took over six years for me to get cross-trained on vehicles. Each time I saw someone else getting trained I checked their seniority, and each time they had more than I. It's called "waiting your turn," just like we tell the guests in line.


I'm certainly not going to say that Unions are always good, nor even that my unions here at Disney have always done the best they could. I do say that when workers are dealing with a corporation the size of Disney, they often need somebody on their side to help balance the scale a bit. Under American Law, Unions are that somebody.

And once you concede that Unions can be needful, then you have no choice but to join, support them, and help them be as strong as possible -- in case the next worker who need help is *you*.

[CMGUY89]

When I am talking about they didn't value my work I met person and the first words out of her mouth were "Are you in the union?" I said no because I was seasonal and she turned her back and walked away. She has consistently looked down her nose at me since then.


As for Seniority, I understand its purpose but I think it's ridiculous that I can't earn seniority. Again a contract thing but I figured the Union would fight for it if it mattered. I've seen other CMs who started after me move on and I've had to stay behind.

[Shorty82]

It's not Union Rules, it's the provisions of the contract. The Union should only get half the blame for them.

Yup, I've seen this. CS management if you ask me.

Hold on, this is just unfair. The Unions aren't *permitted* to let seasonal cast join. For years, we part-timers couldn't either. As soon as part-timers could join, we were welcomed and treated the same as the full-timers. Again, don't put all the blame on the Unions for the Contract provisions.

No, mediocrity is encouraged by management who either don't know what good show is or don't care. A Union situation can result in there being minimum standards set, and some individuals will perform only to those minimums. I've never heard a negative word at Disney for trying to exceed those minimum standards, though I have seen it elsewhere.

Yes, this is called "seniority". It sucks, but it sucks less than the favoritism that might rule if it didn't exist. When I worked on Main Street, it took over six years for me to get cross-trained on vehicles. Each time I saw someone else getting trained I checked their seniority, and each time they had more than I. It's called "waiting your turn," just like we tell the guests in line.


I'm certainly not going to say that Unions are always good, nor even that my unions here at Disney have always done the best they could. I do say that when workers are dealing with a corporation the size of Disney, they often need somebody on their side to help balance the scale a bit. Under American Law, Unions are that somebody.

And once you concede that Unions can be needful, then you have no choice but to join, support them, and help them be as strong as possible -- in case the next worker who need help is *you*.

I've noticed that when it comes to the Unions the CMs are either for and support them, against them, or on the fence about them.

I'm sorta on the fence about them ATM. WDW employs 60,000 people and the way I see it unions are about the only way for the individual CMs to get their voices heard sometimes. Then again I'm pissed at my union rep. Monday I called and made arrangements to meet her for lunch on Tuesday. Well, Tuesday morning she calls me while I'm in the Main Street Bakery getting some breakfast to tell me she has an appointment at lunch time and wants to meet at either 10:30 or 3:30 in the cafeteria, I couldn't understand the time as there was a lot of noise and my signal quality was bad.

I get to the cafeteria about 10:15 and hang around till almost 11:00 and never saw her. I then left Studios sooner than I wanted to to get back to the Kingdom in time for 3:30. I wait around for about 20 minutes or so that time and decided to just leave.

I got talking to a coworker while just hanging around Main Street and mentioned the supposed meeting with the rep. One of our stewards was around and he introduced us. The steward is supposedly getting me a copy of the contract and all but we'll see what happens. If nothing happens soon I'm going to stop paying my dues as apparently they don't care enough to even meet with me so I can learn what the union can do for me and I can do for the union.

When I am talking about they didn't value my work I met person and the first words out of her mouth were "Are you in the union?" I said no because I was seasonal and she turned her back and walked away. She has consistently looked down her nose at me since then.

That's not the union, that is the representative. I doubt the union supports that kind of action.

[pattimelt]

Oh geez.. you're all gonna get me started on the piece of crap I have to call MY union??

Let's see.. where to start??

- Contractural wage increase of 3% as of March 16, 2008 (27 CENTS, mind you!) I have NOT seen in my check YET!! Over 200 hours since the increase was supposed to take effect. Not that it's that much, but still..

- Lack of CM input into contract negotiations. My contract is up March 09, and I have NO CLUE what the union wants to ask for, nor have they asked anyone in my department what we would want.

- A living wage would be nice. I started at DLR in March of 07. My original starting wage was $8.20 per hour. In March 07, I got my 3.5% wage increase, which gave me $8.53 an hour. My wages were bumped up again when DLR raised the starting wage at the parks to $9.05 an hour in the fall of 07. Even working 40 hours a week, my take home is under $300. I want to see the people in the union or the Disney execs try and survive on that kind of money. It ain't gonna happen. Housing alone, for most CM's takes most of their hourly wages per month. Then try eating, and paying bills-- it can't happen. Fast food workers in the neighborhood of Disneyland make over $10 an hour TO START-- can't we make at least as much as the people make at McDonalds, considering the amount of information and CASH we handle each day??

- And then we have the "clock" problem. I work in the middle of the esplanade. There are no restrooms nor break areas in the immediate vicinity, yet I have to punch out at my booth; THEN walk to either park proxy gate thru a bunch of guests, who all want to ask questions; then wait to enter into the park thru the same gate as guests with strollers, who all need to get a hand stamp; and continue to walk thru more guests to get to the closest break room/restroom to actually begin my 30 minute "task free" lunch or my 15 minute "task free" breaks. Supposedly, once I clock out for lunch, I'm on MY time-- not DL's time. Yet, by the time I get thru to the break room, at least 7 minutes of my break or lunch is used up just GETTING to the area, and then I have to use the same amount of time to get back. But if you're late, you get docked with points and in your pay!!

I've been offered other jobs making 3x what I make at Disneyland. But the hardest part is "would I be happy there", and so far, the answer is no. I like what I do at the parks, and I can't honestly ask for better co-workers/friends. My leads and managers are pretty cool, too, so that makes coming to work every day a good experience. In the long run, though, it's becoming harder and harder to deal with the rules in place that make me not want to come to work.

See, you HAD to get me started..