They Shoot Dolphins, Don't They?

[mechurchlady]

Explanation on religion and parks

In Los Angeles there are orthodox Jews who will walk down the middle of a street so they do not turn on the lights for automatic security sensors.

To the deeply devout, fundamentalist, orthodox person they must obey their relgious doctrine or teachings to the letter. The devout Baptist, Mormon and Muslim will make sure their food, drink, and medicine does not contain alcohol. They will check to make sure that a homemade cake made with vanilla flavouring was not made with vanilla extract that has vanilla in it. The devout Jew will make sure the gelatin was not made from pigs which is pretty common. The Hindu whose religion says no eating meat will read labels and not eat anything with gelatin made from pigs, lard, or cochineal.

This strict following of religious laws is taken to work, playgrounds, pools, restaurants, banks, and everywhere in the person's life. Tikis are gods of the Pacific Islanders. Religious text says to have no other Gods but the one almighty Creator. Those texts say the religious person is to not worship those idols. Thus the religious person would have no tikis in their home, car, workplace, on clothing, etc. They would not go to show that had Tikis as the characters except it is was to show them in a negative light or as part of other people's culture.

I would tell the kids "We are going to see a show that has Tiki Gods. This is how Disney enterprets how Polynesians celebrate those Gods. " I would then go into some educating and get into a discussion on the commandments and stuff. I belong to facebook and will not join the vampire, werewolf and zombie applications. I had a friend on My Space that I dropped there because his friends had very pages and were not kid friendly. I met the guy through a kid friendly site and know kids might visit my page there so he is gone.

I am tired with 3 hours sleep and too many food reactions. I hope that explained everything.
I see no reason to boycott a company like Disney park because they have rides and shows with things that are against a person's religion. I do see boycotting to get more nonreligious stuff and to have religious rights for guests and CMs for example.

[Big Wallaby]

Well thought out, and well said, Churchy. If I was to use the term "worship" in its most broad sense, I would have to be against using money, as by putting the face of Abraham Lincoln on the $5 bill, and then using it, is a form of worship. I can see where, because the Tikis come to life and do various things like fry Iago, that can very, very easily be construed as a form of worshipping them to witness and enjoy that show. I have absolutely no issue with Churchy and her not seeing attending the Enchanted Tiki Room or Haunted Mansion with it's occult moments. While all are used in a comical way at Disney, it is easy to slip from the comedy to actually believing.... and the whole point of any attraction at Disney Parks is to suspend the disbelief.

When I was in the magic industry, I know many people in churches who would have nothing to do with me because I was the person behind the curtain pulling ropes, blowing smoke and adjusting mirrors to make "magic" happen. Now, I was okay in my own mind and heart, as I do not have any spiritual connection in my being a magician, unless I do like Andre Kole and put on a Christian magic show. Gotta love when Andre talks about how being a magician makes it easier to have faith, as Jesus could have walked on water through purely mechanical means... if two semi trucks of equipment had followed him through the desert (and after my own use of mechanical magic, my estimate is that it would have taken more like three or four).

So I do not joke at all, nor am I facetious when I tell Churchy "Way to go!" Good for you to stand up for what you believe and the way you believe it.

[mechurchlady]

I love the Mansion and Tiki shows but got weird feelings about the Mansion and just am not comfortable there. Tiki show on the other hand is make believe and I see no religion there. If I could ever be blessed to go to WDW then I would probably see it twice and loved it the last time I was there.

We have magicians in the BBFI but the tricks are sleight of hand and used to explain biblical and/or moral things.

[Big Wallaby]

We have magicians in the BBFI but the tricks are sleight of hand and used to explain biblical and/or moral things.

That's the key. One person I don't care for is Criss Angel. The illusions he performs are really good, but the way in which he presents them bothers me. Not because they're graphic, but because he acts like it's something special and spiritual that he is doing.

I see David Blaine's stunts in a similar light.

Copperfield used to be really, really good, and he's still one of my favorite performers, because he's a great magician, and a much better performer than he is a magician. But now he's on this whole thing to make his magic shows a spiritual journey, despite the fact it's all illusion.

[mechurchlady]

I loved magic and went to school with a kid in love with magic. I quit loving magic the day He committed suicide in jail because he had helped someone do horrid things to people including murder probably. My sweet llittle schoolmate needed friends and end up with someone evil and went to the dark side of life. No more chess or magic for me. Never.

[BRWombat]

That's the key. One person I don't care for is Criss Angel. The illusions he performs are really good, but the way in which he presents them bothers me. Not because they're graphic, but because he acts like it's something special and spiritual that he is doing.

I see David Blaine's stunts in a similar light.

I'm with you on these, BW. The great illusionists leave you baffled at how things are accomplished, but leave no doubt that you are being entertained with an illusion, not a miracle. Those that claim or suggest supernatural powers at work are deceivers.

Harkening back to the earlier discussion, I have to admit that I'm baffled by the legalistic exercise of religion, and I was raised Southern Baptist! It's sad how so many miss out on the freedom following Christ brings. The Bible's pretty clear that nothing on the outside corrupts us, only what's in our hearts. While I'll avoid taking an active part in other's ceremonies, I don't have a bit of problem observing them and even appreciating them and the part they play in their culture.

ETA: Great, now I've got the Tiki room song stuck in my head!

[SRT_GB]

I once saw a Guest Relations CM in tears backstage because someone railed on her about how evil Disney is for having a fairy godmother in Cinderella. Their claim was that it was endorsing the belief that something other than the Almighty God controlled our life circumstances. Why the hell would someone spend $43 (at the time) to get into a theme park owned by a company they think is morally wrong?

I'm a religious person myself, but I don't use my religious beliefs as an excuse for ignorance.

[Syndrome]

One of the cruise directors on Disney Cruise Line told me they had complaints from some Christians because the Hercules show featured Greek gods. I am a Christian myself (Presbyterian), but I respect the beliefs of others, whether Christian or other religion...if you're offended by something, just don't go to see it. I respect anyone's right to do that. I just don't like it when a group will try to get something stopped or removed because that crosses the line of imposing their beliefs onto me. A friend of mine has a bumper sticker that says "God is too big for just one religion," and I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Of course, I'm rather liberal even in my own denomination. For example, Presbyterians are still divided on the gay/lesbian issue, but a good chunk of my practice is working with gays clients. I feel no discomfort with that whatsoever because I take it literally that God loves everyone and that we have no right to judge. I also have friends who are psychics...I know that raises the hair of many Christians, but I look at it this way: What were the Biblical prophets? I believe that God gives gifts to some people, so it's not sinful to use them as long as you acknowledge where they come from and use them in a way to help others. (And I think true psychics are very, very rare anyway).

[Big Wallaby]

The other group that gets me riled up is Westboro Baptist Church, where the belief is that God hates America, Jews, gays, our armed forces, pet owners (okay, so I made that one up), and everyone else who is not in their single congregation. Somehow, they have the belief that God enjoys sending people to hell. They would like to believe the world hates them for being Christian, but in truth I hate them for their gospel of hate, anger, bitterness and such a reactionary stance to the world around them. Even when Jesus said very painful things, it was not in hate. Even in the times he showed anger, there was no hate... I mean, c'mon, he even called one of the Apostles "Satan", an Apostle who became one of the best apologists at the time. I guarantee He didn't hate that Apostle at that time.

I scratch my head at a church (and I use the term loosely in this case) who would have such websites as godhatesfags.com, godhatesamerica.com, and etc. I don't suggest visiting the preceding websites, by the way, unless you want to ruin your whole day. Even if you believe these things, what good does it do to spew that hatred all over the internet? If you believe as I do in rebirth through the embracing of Christ and His death and resurrection, then it should sadden you to see people not embrace it. But these people celebrate it. So regarding people of that bent, I say damn them to Hell! May they burn for the vile hatred they spew and their twisting of the Gospel to make them feel better about themselves. The day you use Christianity, my belief, to look down on others, I will say that about you, too.

[Syndrome]

OMG!!! I could only spend less than a minute at that website before being totally repulsed and appalled. With sections like "God Loves Everyone - The Greatest Lie Ever Told," I am scratching my head that they can even deign to call themselves Christians. Are they familiar at all with what Jesus preached? With what He died for? I wonder just how miserable and unhappy they must be with their lives to be able to spew such hate and venom.

My belief is summed up in a song we sing at our church's contemporary service:

Jesus paid much too high a price
For us to pick and choose who should come
And we are the body of Christ