:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:Lasolimu wrote:I only have one credit card and I've always paid it off every month.
Wondering about Disney Cruises
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Don't be fooled by appearances. In Hawaii, some of the most powerful people look like bums and stuntmen.
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
I would be very interested and would love to pass this along to my college sophomore.Big Wallaby wrote:Since the idea of debt came up, would anyone be interested in reading an article that I put on my blog and Facebook page about how debt works? I offer because I never really understood how debt and interest worked until I was studying to become a REALTOR® this year. Geez, had I known what I know now, when I was 18, there are SO many decisions I would have made differently. If you see the article and want to pass it on to a young person, feel free. You might save them a lot of headache and heartache that I've put myself through.
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
Alright. Get ready. One of you asked for it. By the way, once I get my site looking correct I will direct you there to see it and other musings so I don't clog up the bandwidth here...
Not that that would actually be a problem...
So here it is:
Episode I of IV
[font=Arial]Before I begin, I am NOT a financial expert. I am not a real estate instructor. These are some thoughts I have been having as I get into the business, knowing what is in our nation’s past and surmising what could be in the future. This is not advice, and you should consult an expert before going on anything I have to say below. That expert, by the way, is not me. I am an expert in the current real estate market. If you want to talk to an expert in Florida, I can point you in the right direction.
What you are about to read is me crunching some numbers, looking at the consequences of loans and the ways in which you pay them off.
In the past couple weeks, I have had the experience of blowing enough peoples’ minds with this in person, that I am going to give some of you the experience here. It’s a long comment, but at the end it will be worth it. I promise. One of the things I had to learn in order to take and pass the real estate exam in Florida, was how to amortize a loan. It’s not that difficult, but I find that very few people actually know the process or how interest works against them, so I decided to walk you through the process today. I consider myself to be fairly intelligent, but this is something I had not seen before real estate school. As a real estate agent, and planning to be a Realtor next Tuesday afternoon, this is important to me that I never have a customer on my side of the table, who a couple years later is coming back to me to short-sale his house. I would much rather have my buyers coming back to me because five years later, they’ve got some decent equity built up, and their house is really looking ugly, so it’s time to upgrade.
The way interest works borders on shoplifting from a prostitute. You are getting screwed, but they have your permission. A friend and teacher gave me the example of his brother who bought a television from Aaron’s Rent-to-Own, a beautiful flat-panel television for $399, at 14% over seven years. That means that he made 84 easy payments of $7.48. Doesn’t sound all that bad, until you think about the final outcome: His $399 telly cost him $628.32. Who won in that case?
Now, I understand that for most people, to get into a home of their own requires that they get a loan; I am in the same boat. So I will subject myself to this same eighth wonder of the world, but only very carefully. Remember that when you take out a loan, you are literally renting money from a bank. Now that I fully understand this, I will only ever rent money very, very carefully. Why? See below. So far, you’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg.
For the sake of today’s example, let’s say that you came to me and we started looking at houses. You have $20,000 saved up and you qualified for a $250,000 loan. We went out and started looking at houses in your price range, and we found the perfect house for you, for $265,000. Now, you put the $20,000 into escrow and have secured financing for the rest of the money, $245,000 at 6.5% interest for 30 years. As we approach closing, it turns out that you are buying in Valium County, where the government is very relaxed, and they don’t charge any taxes. Further, the company financing your loan is Big Moron Lending, and they don’t require you to buy insurance on your house; I guess they assume you have money to burn. So all we have to deal with is your down payment of $20,000 and your loan of $245,000.[/font]
Not that that would actually be a problem...
So here it is:
Episode I of IV
[font=Arial]Before I begin, I am NOT a financial expert. I am not a real estate instructor. These are some thoughts I have been having as I get into the business, knowing what is in our nation’s past and surmising what could be in the future. This is not advice, and you should consult an expert before going on anything I have to say below. That expert, by the way, is not me. I am an expert in the current real estate market. If you want to talk to an expert in Florida, I can point you in the right direction.
What you are about to read is me crunching some numbers, looking at the consequences of loans and the ways in which you pay them off.
In the past couple weeks, I have had the experience of blowing enough peoples’ minds with this in person, that I am going to give some of you the experience here. It’s a long comment, but at the end it will be worth it. I promise. One of the things I had to learn in order to take and pass the real estate exam in Florida, was how to amortize a loan. It’s not that difficult, but I find that very few people actually know the process or how interest works against them, so I decided to walk you through the process today. I consider myself to be fairly intelligent, but this is something I had not seen before real estate school. As a real estate agent, and planning to be a Realtor next Tuesday afternoon, this is important to me that I never have a customer on my side of the table, who a couple years later is coming back to me to short-sale his house. I would much rather have my buyers coming back to me because five years later, they’ve got some decent equity built up, and their house is really looking ugly, so it’s time to upgrade.
The way interest works borders on shoplifting from a prostitute. You are getting screwed, but they have your permission. A friend and teacher gave me the example of his brother who bought a television from Aaron’s Rent-to-Own, a beautiful flat-panel television for $399, at 14% over seven years. That means that he made 84 easy payments of $7.48. Doesn’t sound all that bad, until you think about the final outcome: His $399 telly cost him $628.32. Who won in that case?
Now, I understand that for most people, to get into a home of their own requires that they get a loan; I am in the same boat. So I will subject myself to this same eighth wonder of the world, but only very carefully. Remember that when you take out a loan, you are literally renting money from a bank. Now that I fully understand this, I will only ever rent money very, very carefully. Why? See below. So far, you’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg.
For the sake of today’s example, let’s say that you came to me and we started looking at houses. You have $20,000 saved up and you qualified for a $250,000 loan. We went out and started looking at houses in your price range, and we found the perfect house for you, for $265,000. Now, you put the $20,000 into escrow and have secured financing for the rest of the money, $245,000 at 6.5% interest for 30 years. As we approach closing, it turns out that you are buying in Valium County, where the government is very relaxed, and they don’t charge any taxes. Further, the company financing your loan is Big Moron Lending, and they don’t require you to buy insurance on your house; I guess they assume you have money to burn. So all we have to deal with is your down payment of $20,000 and your loan of $245,000.[/font]
My opinions are mine and mine only. If my opinions are the opinion of others who happen to share whatever my crazy views may be, then fine, but it's not because I represent them in having my opinions. Got it?
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
[font=Arial]Episode II of IV
Through the formula A=P [[R(1+r)n] [(1+R)n - 1]] where:[/font]
[font=Arial]A = Monthly Payment[/font]
[font=Arial]P = Principal[/font]
[font=Arial]R = Rate[/font]
[font=Arial]n = Number of months[/font]
[font=Arial]We came to the conclusion that your payment is going to be $1548.57. Over the life of your amortized loan, this is the one thing that will remain constant. Let’s take a look at how your first payment will break down.[/font]
[font=Arial]First, let’s look at the meaning of APR, or Annual Percentage Rate. Note that it is not the Lifetime Percentage Rate, but Annual. That means that your interest rate is being calculated as though you are paying the entire interest on the loan over the next twelve months. On that $245,000 loan, if your principal reduction rate was constant and you were going to pay off the loan in a year, your total interest, or rental of the loan money, would come out to $15,925. Not too bad. That means that for your first payment, we’ll divide that $15,925 by 12 and you will pay $1,327.08 in interest, leaving $221.49 on your principal. $221.49 down, only $244,778.51 to go on your $245,000 loan. And the good news is, next month you’re gonna be paying less in interest, and more on the principal! Yay![/font][font=Arial]Now, let’s look at what that second payment will be: We take our $1548.57 payment, and our new loan principal amount, $244,778.51 and plug it into the system. If all things stayed constant, the interest (rent) you would pay on this new principal over the next 12 months would be $15,910.60. Hey, we’re saving $15 in interest this year, hooray! So that $15,910.60 annually leaves you with a monthly interest paydown of $1,325.88. That leaves $222.69 going to the principal, reducing that principal to $244,555.82. We’re making headway now!
Assuming you never refinanced and lengthened your loan, it should start feeling pretty easy after several years when hopefully house prices have continued to go up, and now the house next to yours costs the family that just moved in is paying a lot more for their house than you are for yours. Remember when $600 a month would have been a pretty steep payment? Inflation is an interesting thing, and a great reason in Florida and several other states to homestead your home… But that’s a whole different topic.
So after three hundred sixty easy payments of $1548.57, your house is paid off. Your $265,000 house in the end cost $577,485 (for those following along on their calculator: First, you are a nitpicky nerd, and thank you for staying with me. Second, don’t forget to put that down payment back in). If you live in a title theory state, that house is finally yours, and a tattered title should be arriving any day. If you live in a lien theory state, you have that monkey… err, lien lifted off your house, and you own it free and clear but for taxes and special assessments.
But what if there was a better way?[/font]
Through the formula A=P [[R(1+r)n] [(1+R)n - 1]] where:[/font]
[font=Arial]A = Monthly Payment[/font]
[font=Arial]P = Principal[/font]
[font=Arial]R = Rate[/font]
[font=Arial]n = Number of months[/font]
[font=Arial]We came to the conclusion that your payment is going to be $1548.57. Over the life of your amortized loan, this is the one thing that will remain constant. Let’s take a look at how your first payment will break down.[/font]
[font=Arial]First, let’s look at the meaning of APR, or Annual Percentage Rate. Note that it is not the Lifetime Percentage Rate, but Annual. That means that your interest rate is being calculated as though you are paying the entire interest on the loan over the next twelve months. On that $245,000 loan, if your principal reduction rate was constant and you were going to pay off the loan in a year, your total interest, or rental of the loan money, would come out to $15,925. Not too bad. That means that for your first payment, we’ll divide that $15,925 by 12 and you will pay $1,327.08 in interest, leaving $221.49 on your principal. $221.49 down, only $244,778.51 to go on your $245,000 loan. And the good news is, next month you’re gonna be paying less in interest, and more on the principal! Yay![/font][font=Arial]Now, let’s look at what that second payment will be: We take our $1548.57 payment, and our new loan principal amount, $244,778.51 and plug it into the system. If all things stayed constant, the interest (rent) you would pay on this new principal over the next 12 months would be $15,910.60. Hey, we’re saving $15 in interest this year, hooray! So that $15,910.60 annually leaves you with a monthly interest paydown of $1,325.88. That leaves $222.69 going to the principal, reducing that principal to $244,555.82. We’re making headway now!
Assuming you never refinanced and lengthened your loan, it should start feeling pretty easy after several years when hopefully house prices have continued to go up, and now the house next to yours costs the family that just moved in is paying a lot more for their house than you are for yours. Remember when $600 a month would have been a pretty steep payment? Inflation is an interesting thing, and a great reason in Florida and several other states to homestead your home… But that’s a whole different topic.
So after three hundred sixty easy payments of $1548.57, your house is paid off. Your $265,000 house in the end cost $577,485 (for those following along on their calculator: First, you are a nitpicky nerd, and thank you for staying with me. Second, don’t forget to put that down payment back in). If you live in a title theory state, that house is finally yours, and a tattered title should be arriving any day. If you live in a lien theory state, you have that monkey… err, lien lifted off your house, and you own it free and clear but for taxes and special assessments.
But what if there was a better way?[/font]
My opinions are mine and mine only. If my opinions are the opinion of others who happen to share whatever my crazy views may be, then fine, but it's not because I represent them in having my opinions. Got it?
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
[font=Arial]Episode III of IV
What if you could pay less and own more, and maybe even get someone else to make those payments on your dream home? Here’s how.[/font]
[font=Arial]Let’s back that truck up and say that you are comfortable with the $1548.57 payment from the first example. What if you were to take that payment, take Dave Ramsey’s debt snowball, and assuming you had no other debt in your life, apply it to a lesser home than your $265 home? Let’s say you took advantage of the current market conditions, bought a nice REO home that might take a touch of TLC, and saved yourself $100,000 off that purchase price. You now have a $165,000 home that you can get paid off very quickly. Why? Let’s take a look.[/font]
[font=Arial]With the $165k purchase price, you put $20,000 down like before, and even though the initial principal is only $145k, you stuck to the $1548.57, instead of the $916.50 that you could be putting in. That means that instead of barely finishing off this month’s money rental interest and then putting pennies to the principal, you pay off the interest, you pay down those pennies, and then throw an extra $632.07… toward the principal. Remember, you’ve agreed in this example that the $1548.57 was at least not too painful. At $632.07 extra going toward principal, your first payment will pay down $763.15 on the principal. For your reference, if you were to pay the minimum, you would pay $632.07 off the principal on one payment for the first time after twenty-five years and two months. You would shave that $763.15 off the loan for the first time in your twenty-eighth year (again, on a 30-year mortgage). So we take your $145,000 loan, pay it like it’s $245,000. Your first payment takes the principal down from $145,000 to $144,236.85. You’re now six months into your loan on your first payment. So let’s do it again. Take the $144,236.85 and the interest for the month comes out to $781.28. You have put $767.29 toward the principal, it’s now knocked down to $143,469.56 and you are now a year into your loan on the second payment. You are ten months ahead, and the bank has hardly had time to shake hands with you. At this point there is a good chance your bank is starting to dislike you. That’s their fault for not putting a prepayment penalty clause into your loan. Essentially, you’re on your way to having that thirty-year loan paid off in under eleven years. I don’t know about you, but I think that’s pretty nice. After five years, you’ve lowered your principal by roughly a third. After five years of inflation, hopefully a number higher is now more comfortable. Even if it’s not, hopefully you’ve timed your purchase to be able to use the market. Hopefully your house’s value has gone up and there are several ways you can use that… just don’t refinance for that pool you really, really want.[/font]
[font=Arial]Something like a pool should be a cash purchase for your personal enjoyment, and not for the sake of adding value to your home. I don’t know about other places, but when I run a comparative market analysis on a house, I don’t look at the $45,000 that it cost to put that pool in, I look at the $5-8000 value that it adds to the home. That’s right, a pool is an overimprovement, an instant $37-40,000 loss, a hole in the ground into which you throw money, and that’s not counting the upkeep. Consult someone who knows before adding anything onto your house. At this point in my life, if I was going to nail or screw a bookcase to my wall, I would ask a home inspector what they thought. Personally, I would call the guy who did the inspection on my house and explained more than I could imagine about all the things wrong with it, before calling it a nice house. I kid you not, the guy will find something wrong on a brand new house, he’s that thorough.[/font]
What if you could pay less and own more, and maybe even get someone else to make those payments on your dream home? Here’s how.[/font]
[font=Arial]Let’s back that truck up and say that you are comfortable with the $1548.57 payment from the first example. What if you were to take that payment, take Dave Ramsey’s debt snowball, and assuming you had no other debt in your life, apply it to a lesser home than your $265 home? Let’s say you took advantage of the current market conditions, bought a nice REO home that might take a touch of TLC, and saved yourself $100,000 off that purchase price. You now have a $165,000 home that you can get paid off very quickly. Why? Let’s take a look.[/font]
[font=Arial]With the $165k purchase price, you put $20,000 down like before, and even though the initial principal is only $145k, you stuck to the $1548.57, instead of the $916.50 that you could be putting in. That means that instead of barely finishing off this month’s money rental interest and then putting pennies to the principal, you pay off the interest, you pay down those pennies, and then throw an extra $632.07… toward the principal. Remember, you’ve agreed in this example that the $1548.57 was at least not too painful. At $632.07 extra going toward principal, your first payment will pay down $763.15 on the principal. For your reference, if you were to pay the minimum, you would pay $632.07 off the principal on one payment for the first time after twenty-five years and two months. You would shave that $763.15 off the loan for the first time in your twenty-eighth year (again, on a 30-year mortgage). So we take your $145,000 loan, pay it like it’s $245,000. Your first payment takes the principal down from $145,000 to $144,236.85. You’re now six months into your loan on your first payment. So let’s do it again. Take the $144,236.85 and the interest for the month comes out to $781.28. You have put $767.29 toward the principal, it’s now knocked down to $143,469.56 and you are now a year into your loan on the second payment. You are ten months ahead, and the bank has hardly had time to shake hands with you. At this point there is a good chance your bank is starting to dislike you. That’s their fault for not putting a prepayment penalty clause into your loan. Essentially, you’re on your way to having that thirty-year loan paid off in under eleven years. I don’t know about you, but I think that’s pretty nice. After five years, you’ve lowered your principal by roughly a third. After five years of inflation, hopefully a number higher is now more comfortable. Even if it’s not, hopefully you’ve timed your purchase to be able to use the market. Hopefully your house’s value has gone up and there are several ways you can use that… just don’t refinance for that pool you really, really want.[/font]
[font=Arial]Something like a pool should be a cash purchase for your personal enjoyment, and not for the sake of adding value to your home. I don’t know about other places, but when I run a comparative market analysis on a house, I don’t look at the $45,000 that it cost to put that pool in, I look at the $5-8000 value that it adds to the home. That’s right, a pool is an overimprovement, an instant $37-40,000 loss, a hole in the ground into which you throw money, and that’s not counting the upkeep. Consult someone who knows before adding anything onto your house. At this point in my life, if I was going to nail or screw a bookcase to my wall, I would ask a home inspector what they thought. Personally, I would call the guy who did the inspection on my house and explained more than I could imagine about all the things wrong with it, before calling it a nice house. I kid you not, the guy will find something wrong on a brand new house, he’s that thorough.[/font]
My opinions are mine and mine only. If my opinions are the opinion of others who happen to share whatever my crazy views may be, then fine, but it's not because I represent them in having my opinions. Got it?
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
[font=Arial]Episode IV of IV
I would instead use that equity buildup on your next house. Far too many people use that equity to build a line of credit, and further the effects of the interest, and often compounding interest on themselves in the form of a second mortgage. I would rather see you own a second house, rent out that ugly old house, and let your renters pay your first house and some of your second. If renting is not for you (just as I don’t think it’s for me), I would rather see you sell your first house and use all that equity for your second. You have the equity of your $20,000 down payment, plus the almost $45,000 that you’ve paid off. $65,000 is a very nice down payment on that new house you’ve been eyeing after being in your current home for five years. A $65,000 down payment on that $265,000 house that you were looking at before means that it comes with an instant $65,000 equity, and now the $200,000 loan is much easier to pay off than that $265,000. Now just continue paying that $1,548.57 on this $1,264.14 and every month you’re still dropping your principal by an extra $284.43. If you’ve learned nothing from my thoughts, you could buy your new house, and by raising your payment by about $3, you could now afford a $226 loan, on the same 30-year schedule as your first purchase, and in that same 30-year span pay off a $291,000 house, instead of $265,000. Again, I would rather see you own your home faster than get into too much house, but part of the fun is that you still have the option to be stupid. Having the option to be stupid makes the choice to be smart that much sweeter in the end.[/font]
[font=Arial]There are better ways to manage your money than what I have proposed here. This is simply one that I have thought about in my musings about interest and how to beat it in a perfect world. Please take this more to show what happens when you take out a loan than to tell you how to pay it. The only advice I will ever give is don’t buy more than you can afford; buy less. Think about it before you use a loan to take that vacation, where your $20,000 trip to places where I have worked suddenly, after several years, has turned out to be $60,000. I’d rather see you use that $60,000 to go three times, or maybe go to the original park across the country.[/font]
[font=Arial]Just remember that when you take out a loan, you are renting money. Renting anything always comes at a price, and the price is much steeper than most of us have been informed. Other than your home, I would say to never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever take out any loan on anything that will not make you money. And certainly, don’t ever fall into credit card debt. There, you have compounding interest, exactly the opposite of how an amortized loan works.[/font]
[font=Arial]I’ll be the first to say I’ve done stupid things with my money. Could I go back in time I might actually beat the younger me up. It’s a good thing that now is never too late to change unless you are dead.[/font]
I would instead use that equity buildup on your next house. Far too many people use that equity to build a line of credit, and further the effects of the interest, and often compounding interest on themselves in the form of a second mortgage. I would rather see you own a second house, rent out that ugly old house, and let your renters pay your first house and some of your second. If renting is not for you (just as I don’t think it’s for me), I would rather see you sell your first house and use all that equity for your second. You have the equity of your $20,000 down payment, plus the almost $45,000 that you’ve paid off. $65,000 is a very nice down payment on that new house you’ve been eyeing after being in your current home for five years. A $65,000 down payment on that $265,000 house that you were looking at before means that it comes with an instant $65,000 equity, and now the $200,000 loan is much easier to pay off than that $265,000. Now just continue paying that $1,548.57 on this $1,264.14 and every month you’re still dropping your principal by an extra $284.43. If you’ve learned nothing from my thoughts, you could buy your new house, and by raising your payment by about $3, you could now afford a $226 loan, on the same 30-year schedule as your first purchase, and in that same 30-year span pay off a $291,000 house, instead of $265,000. Again, I would rather see you own your home faster than get into too much house, but part of the fun is that you still have the option to be stupid. Having the option to be stupid makes the choice to be smart that much sweeter in the end.[/font]
[font=Arial]There are better ways to manage your money than what I have proposed here. This is simply one that I have thought about in my musings about interest and how to beat it in a perfect world. Please take this more to show what happens when you take out a loan than to tell you how to pay it. The only advice I will ever give is don’t buy more than you can afford; buy less. Think about it before you use a loan to take that vacation, where your $20,000 trip to places where I have worked suddenly, after several years, has turned out to be $60,000. I’d rather see you use that $60,000 to go three times, or maybe go to the original park across the country.[/font]
[font=Arial]Just remember that when you take out a loan, you are renting money. Renting anything always comes at a price, and the price is much steeper than most of us have been informed. Other than your home, I would say to never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever take out any loan on anything that will not make you money. And certainly, don’t ever fall into credit card debt. There, you have compounding interest, exactly the opposite of how an amortized loan works.[/font]
[font=Arial]I’ll be the first to say I’ve done stupid things with my money. Could I go back in time I might actually beat the younger me up. It’s a good thing that now is never too late to change unless you are dead.[/font]
My opinions are mine and mine only. If my opinions are the opinion of others who happen to share whatever my crazy views may be, then fine, but it's not because I represent them in having my opinions. Got it?
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
And with that, you have seen my longest post ever.
My opinions are mine and mine only. If my opinions are the opinion of others who happen to share whatever my crazy views may be, then fine, but it's not because I represent them in having my opinions. Got it?
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
Good for you. I've taken expensive trips and cheap ones -- really cheap ones -- and some of my fondest memories are from the cheap ones.Lasolimu wrote:...When I look at pricing I can't help but think they're too expensive. Sure a lot might be included, but I've gotten pretty good at planning awesome trips for cheap.
"This would be a great place if we could only get rid of all these people." - Walt Disney

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- hobie16
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
One thing you didn't mention is the length or term of the loan. Interest rates will be lower on a 15 year vs. a 30 year loan. There's also shorter term LIBOR loans that get you into sub two percent interest rates.Big Wallaby wrote:And with that, you have seen my longest post ever.
Here's my favorite loan calculator. It allows for modeling based on a number of factors.

Don't be fooled by appearances. In Hawaii, some of the most powerful people look like bums and stuntmen.
--- Matt King
Stay low and run in a zigzag pattern.
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Re: Wondering about Disney Cruises
I am stealing and making use of that calculator.
My opinions are mine and mine only. If my opinions are the opinion of others who happen to share whatever my crazy views may be, then fine, but it's not because I represent them in having my opinions. Got it?