Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

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Princess Susi
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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by Princess Susi » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:32 am

StephM wrote:I think the kids and DH would LOVE a cross country train trip!

I know as a kid, I always loved the drive to wherever mom and dad took us: Sandusky, OH, Williamsburg, VA, Tampa and Orlando. We used to drive to WDW and did like doing it, but it was too much for DH, he would arrive wiped.

Hmmm...looks like I will have to start my DL planning with Amtrak. ;)

And GP- After dinner at Narcoosee's on 7/22, DH and I will be on the Poly beach drinking one, guaranteed!! That is, if I don't decide to grab one in May! Although if they are as good as you say, I may do both. ;)
When in May are you going to WDW? We will be there for about three weeks from the beginning of the month. Need to flee before Memorial Day! And anyone else who is going to be there, we need, no MUST set up a meet for dinner or a lunch or doing the Kilamjaro Safari all together for the joy of a Marsupial driver! :D: THAT would be great for all of us May SGT travellers to The World to ride in one truck with Wallaby! Hey how bout it? :D:
sues


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by Princess Susi » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:51 am

Randy B wrote:True there are lots of tunnels (small T) but you will never forget the Moffat. It is 6 miles LONG! Now that's a Tunnel with a capitol T. :D:

Randy
Colorado is by far the most beautiful of the states you go through. The scenery is breathtaking! We live in Denver so going west is a real treat on the train! Denver has a great old train station and I love to embark there. It reminds me of the old stations and has the charm of the 1800s stations, though some developer just won rights to develop the downtown area near Union Station. I hope they build AROUND the old building and keep the ambience of the old west and riding the rails from Denver.

By the way, the big Western Stock Show is coming up this month.It is one of the biggest Stock Shows in the country and is amazing if you like cowboys and cattle!!!!! Some people still travel by train to get to it! Denver really is a cow town! Mooooooooooooooooooo :cow: :cow2: :horse2: :horse1: :horse3: :pig2: :sheep: :sheepdanc : :sheepwalk : :sheepjump :
:wantsmil: We need cowbpys and cowgirls smilies! And maybe a bullriding smilie if there is such a thing! :p:
Randy B wrote:Since the route goes from LA to Chicago you probably will be going through the Grand Canyon of the Gunnison in Colorado. The train runs down along the river with the canyon so narrow there is no room for a road so the road for the cars is WAY up on the cliffs. Also be sure to watch for the Moffat tunnel through the continental divide. Lots of spectacular scenery through Colorado.

BTW the route mentioned previously went to Chicago and then to NY before turning south. You might look at changing in Chicago to go south to N Orleans. (And if you do you will be flying right past my apt, so wave.) :D:

Randy
Yeah the Moffat tunnel is long and dark. I think it is actually longer than 6 miles, it seems to me I heard that it was more like 11 or 12 miles long. I will check it out and get the info. That magnificent feat of man to bore a hole that long through granite just to get to the other side of the continental divide is a major story in itself. Here in Denver, most of the bookstores carry great volumes on the train and it's history and the feats that made transcontinental travel possible. It is truly amazing!

I get a bit claustrophobic in the tunnel, :eek: so I lie down and close my eyes while going through, except the one trip we hit the tunnel at mealtime, so we were in the dining car and I was actually okay. You get to share your table with interesting people from all over and many are true train enthusiasts. They go by train everywhere and some only travel, JUST to ride the train, with no real destination in mind, just to ride the train to somewhere and back. That would be fun! They are very cool folks. They know lots about the trains and I could chat with them for hours on end. So much fun! :D:

This is my favorite subject ever on SGT! Where is Zazu? He loves trains! I bet he has taken a few trips on some, and not just the DL or WDW ones. ;) Maybe Zazu has some stories to share about trains and train trups. Oh Zaaaaazuuuuuuu!!!! Regale us with stories of trains!
sooze*Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo*slicker :p:


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by Princess Susi » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:57 am

Nope you are right! 6.21 miles. :D: It always seemed longer than that and I could swear that I has heard an announcement on the train that it was 10 miles long...Oh well, senior moments make you remember less and less. :( So it is shorter than I thought! Good.
suse
Here is a cool history of The Moffat Tunnel

The Moffat Tunnel

History of the Tunnel [to 1928]

The following is an excerpt from Ingram, Yearbook of the State of Colorado 1939-1940, Tolbert R. ed. Denver: The Bradford Robinson Ftg. Co. & Colorado State Planning Commission, 1940, 441-442.

"The propensity of man to battle and overcome natural barriers in his path of progress is illustrated in Colorado by the many miles of tunnels which have been constructed to level railroad grades through the mountains, convey water from the rivers to the valleys for irrigation purposes, recover minerals in the earth and and to generate hydro-electric power for industrial and domestic uses...

The Moffat Tunnel was cut under a shoulder of James Peak, 50 miles west of Denver, for the purpose of eliminating heavy railroad grades over the Continental Divide and shortening railroad distances. It is a public improvement constructed by the Moffat Tunnel Improvement District, created by the state legislature on April 29, 1923. It was named in honor of David H. Moffat, a pioneer banker and railroad builder, to whom is given the credit for having originated the undertaking...

The cost of the tunnel was approximately $18,000,000, of which the major part was defrayed by the proceeds of four bond issues totaling $15,470,000, and the remainder from profits from concessions... A pioneer tunnel bored parallel with the main tunnel to facilitate the work is eight feet high and eight feet wide. The pioneer tunnel was officially 'holed' through on February 18, 1926, the blast of dynamite being set off by President Coolidge upon pressing a key in Washington, and the program being broadcast to the country by radio from the heart of the mountain.

This tunnel is under lease to the City of Denver, which operates it as a trans-mountain diversion project that transports water through to the eastern slope of the range. The railroad tunnel was 'holed' through on July 7, 1927, and formally turned over completed to the lessee on February 26, 1928... Railroad connections through the tunnel shortened the distance between Denver and the Pacific coast by 176 miles.

The project involved the excavation of 750,000 cubic yards, or 3,000,000,000 pounds of rock, equal to 1,600 freight trains of 40 cars each; 2,500,000 pounds of dynamite discharged; 700 miles of drill holes; 11,000,000 F. B. M. timber, equivalent to more that 2,000 miles of 1 by 12 inch plank; and the use of 28,000,000 K. W. H. electric power."

After 1928

The following history and "Facts" is an excerpt from a 1996 Colorado Department of Local Affairs Web Page.

"In the history of the nation's railroads, the Moffat Tunnel is considered one of the most politically challenging battles and ultimately one of the most significant of engineering feats. A number of financing bills in the early 1900s came before the Colorado State Legislature and to public referendum, and were defeated. Finally in 1921, tied to emergency relief funds for flooded communities around Pueblo in the southern part of the state, Moffat Tunnel legislation was passed. A Commission structure was established to manage the construction and administer the bond financing through a Moffat Tunnel Improvement District, with five elected Commissioners, three representing the Eastern Slope and two the Western Slope. The District comprise[d] all or portions of nine counties along the rail route stretching from Denver to the Utah border.

The initial bond issue was $6,620,000 although construction delays pushed the cost to a total of $15.6 million by the time the tunnels were complete. Construction began in September 1923 on the pilot bore which eventually became the water tunnel. Utilizing the pilot bore enabled the main tunnel work to proceed from both directions and several headings simultaneously. Twenty eight individuals died during this massive construction project.

When the railway tunnel was completed in 1928 it spanned 6.2 miles at over 9,200 feet in elevation, passing underneath the 2 mile-high spine of the Rocky Mountains. During the past 69 years, millions of travelers have crossed the tunnel on the California Zephyr and other historic trains. Although its major role today is as a rail route for coal and freight and as a water tunnel from the Pacific watershed to Colorado's Front Range population centers, its passenger train route remains a major attraction for tourists and skiers.

The water tunnel continues to provide a significant portion of Denver's water from the Western slope Fraser Basin. This water has played an essential role in Denver and suburban Front Range growth.

In recent years (1984) the bonds for the tunnels were paid off and the Moffat Tunnel Improvement District Commissioners continued to administer the tunnels and the District's finances and grant monies to public projects within the nine counties represented in the District.

In 1996 the Colorado State Legislature passed Senate Bill 233 authorizing the Moffat Tunnel Commission to sell the assets of the District and allocate the proceeds proportionately to the counties in the District. The Moffat Tunnel Improvement District...sunset on February 1, 1998 and administration of any remaining assets... rest[ed] with the Colorado State Department of Local Affairs."

Facts About the Moffat Tunnel

Length: 6.21 miles

Location: Situated 50 miles west of Denver's Union Station. It reduced the previously-used primary rail route by 150 miles and 4 hours travel time.

Altitude: The tunnel portals are just below 9,200 feet and the tunnel rises to 9,242 feet at its midpoint. It crosses beneath a ridge at 11,600 feet, north of 13,294-foot James Peak.

David H. Moffat, Jr.: President of Denver & Rio Grande Railroad who pursued a vision of a rail route west from Denver through the Continental Divide.

Moffat's Death: David H. Moffat, Jr. died March 18, 1911, 11 years before his vision of a project to build a tunnel was begun.

Moffat Tunnel Bill: Passed in special session of the Colorado Legislature April 29, 1922.

Cost of Completion: $15.6 million.

Construction Fatalities: 28 died during the 5-year project, six in a single cave-in July 30, 1926.

"Holing-Through" Ceremony: Feb. 18, 1927.

First Freight Train: Feb. 24, 1928, 12 cars.

Opening Ceremony: Feb. 26, 1928. Four trains arrived from Denver bringing 2,500 people who attended the ceremony.

Dotsero Cutoff: The final route along the Colorado River Gorge west of the Tunnel, linking to the Grand Valley. It was built in 1934 and became the main route between Denver and Salt Lake City.

Some Passenger Trains that have used the Tunnel: "Panoramic," "Mountaineer," "Exposition Flyer," "Prospector," "California Zephyr," "Yampa Valley Mail."

Senate Bill 96-233: "Concerning the Moffat Tunnel, and in connection therewith, allowing the Moffat Tunnel Commission to sell the assets of the Moffat Tunnel Improvement District, authorizing the Department of Local Affairs to assume the powers of the Moffat Tunnel Commission, and sunsetting the Moffat Tunnel Improvement District." Signed into law by Gov. Roy Romer, May 23, 1996.


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by Princess Susi » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:02 pm

Here is a very cool site about the California Zephyr and show diagrams of all the cars and all sorts of fun stuff!
susi

http://calzephyr.railfan.net/cars/tour.html


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by hobie16 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:22 pm

Randy B wrote:True there are lots of tunnels (small T) but you will never forget the Moffat. It is 6 miles LONG! Now that's a Tunnel with a capitol T.
Try the Chunnel between the UK and France. It's 31 miles long and pitch black. The best part of the trip is between the coast and Paris. You're cruising at 178 mph. The ride is very smooth.


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by StephM » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:41 pm

susislicker wrote:When in May are you going to WDW? We will be there for about three weeks from the beginning of the month. Need to flee before Memorial Day! And anyone else who is going to be there, we need, no MUST set up a meet for dinner or a lunch or doing the Kilamjaro Safari all together for the joy of a Marsupial driver! :D: THAT would be great for all of us May SGT travellers to The World to ride in one truck with Wallaby! Hey how bout it? :D:
sues
We are there 5/4-5/15, so I think we are going to miss you. :(

I really need to check here before I book trips. :) I can't think of many people I would rather meet up with than the SGT crew.


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by GRUMPY PIRATE » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:44 pm

Shorty82 wrote:Looking at the route map this is a LOT shorter way to go.

If you go this way also wave as you go through Pensacola, that's where Whazzup and I are at.

Amtrak sounds like a cool way to travel but sadly they closed down the station here a while back so it isn't to much of an option for me.
Looked into it, and if we booked the "southern route" or any portion, the fine print says that cetrain "portions" are by bus, as the track is out and no date of repair is even being discussed. Called amtrack and they confirmed that if we wanted a "train" ride, we had to go the route through Chicago. Guess they never repaired the track after Katrina! (Darn!!)

The lady at Amtrac said basically that it would be by bus from Texas to Flordia!


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by Princess Susi » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:47 pm

StephM wrote:We are there 5/4-5/15, so I think we are going to miss you. :(

I really need to check here before I book trips. :) I can't think of many people I would rather meet up with than the SGT crew.
We will be there. We are coming at the beginning of the month around the 2nd or 3rd and staying three weeks til about the 21st, so we should have some overlap. As it gets closer we will have to figure something out for a meet with everyone who will be there. :D:
susi


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by GRUMPY PIRATE » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:55 pm

hobie16 wrote:Try the Chunnel between the UK and France. It's 31 miles long and pitch black. The best part of the trip is between the coast and Paris. You're cruising at 178 mph. The ride is very smooth.
That another one that we would like to do, just to say we did!! Plus DW wants to go back to Paris and visit the Artsy stuff again!!


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Re: Can I just vent about something? V&As new kid ban...

Post by GRUMPY PIRATE » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:00 pm

StephM wrote:Aye yi yi.

I have now been informed that the banning of children from V&A's is just like the Holocaust. And that next they will be banning them from rides.

Someone shoot me. :rolleyes:

I once thought I would love to work part time at Disney if we make the jump to central Florida. Now I think there is not enough Tylenol or alcohol in the world. :D:

Honestly, you guys and girls get the "most patience in the universe" award from me.
What? I think that is a bit over the top on comparing a dining experience with mass murder. Come on people, its not that big of deal, timmy and tammy can wait till they are 10 to go waste $150.00 of mom and dads money experiencing something that they would be better served by having dinner with Mickey and Goofey.


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