need to ask this one

[BRWombat]

I've told my kids, "You have my permission to smoke. But only if you are on fire." :D:

[Princess Susi]

Kwahati, I am not one of those who bitch about the cigs! You have a right to smoke, just as I did when I did! I don't like it when people use the excuse that they are allergic to it when they are not. I was just saying that some people really can be allergic to it, just like your roomate who is deathly allergic to bananas. It IS all too often used as an excuse to try to manipulate people into modifying their behavior to suit the one who is unhappy with the smoke. We agree on that. I was simply quite taken aback by a remark that said there was ABSOLUTELY NO such thing as an allergy to cig smoke. That is not an absolute. We agree and I won't cut the tips off your burning ciggies with a scizzors! :D:

[Kwahati]

I only posted what I did to give some specific scientific background to the term allergy. And NOT all people who have "SIGNS" of allergies actually have allergies. Their body is simply telling them that this is a toxic substance that does not feel good to it. "SYMPTOMS" are a whole nother matter. They are the things you get when you actually have an allergy or an illness or a malady of some sort. Does everyone who shows "signs" of allergic reaction to cigs have allergies, NO! But do some actually have allergies to some of the chemicals present or even the tobacco in the cigerettes, you betcha! And they show symptoms and those symptoms WARN the person that serious illness or even death is coming.

Cool. Well, not the death part, but I understand and will not argue. What I will say is that my own mother does the "I'm allergic to smoking" thing when she's very well not. A lot of people do it. I'm cool with it as far as booking hotel rooms and things like that ("can you guarantee me a non-smoking room? I'm allergic to it.") But complaining about the scent lingering on people, or in places where smokers are expected to be (ie "smoking areas") by using this excuse (or trying to change your hotel room assignment after the fact because you forgot to ask for what you wanted in the first place) is dumb [I'm sorry, all of our non-smoking rooms seem to be filled with people who are "allergic to smoke" just like you, so I can't really move them!]. People with real allergies avoid the thing they're allergic to like the plague.

I am not anti-smoker, I was a smoker. I feel people have the right to smoke and I have no right to tell them not to. Some of the anti-smoking laws are ridiculous, but they do protect those who do not want to breathe smoke which contains toxic elements. I am glad for smoking areas and I am happy to show people where they are, there was a time when I used them myself and I was a very polite smoker. It is the people who are militant about it on either side of the issue that create problems.

It turns out, most of us are polite about it. Even I'm generally polite about it and I'm militant about everything!

As you can see, I SAID, only the person and their doctor can tell if they ACTUALLY have an allergy to the things or if they are simply showing signs of being around toxic smoke. You gotta admit, the jury is in, the things are not called coffin nails for nuthin. They do kill and cause a whole plethora of respiratory ailments, not just cancer and they DO aggravate conditions in the people who smoke them and the people who are around them in the same house all the time.

Sure. No arguments here.

Studies show that Asthma IS aggravated by cig smoke and in some cases the toxins (chemical additives in the cigs) do cause asthma in youngsters. The studies are all there.

Okay, (a) we've already established that you can find evidence to support any conclusion you want, so of course the studies are there. (b) Studies also show that in an extraordinarily large number of cases, including some entire towns in CA, asthma is caused by smog. (c) Empirical evidence: according to all statistics, asthma in children is on the rise, numbers of smokers are on the decline, and certainly the number of children being constantly exposed to smoke is way down from previous time periods as education about the effects of smoking gains ground. I'm not disputing that being exposed to smoke causes asthma in kids. I am, however, postulating that smog is substantially worse. With all the crap we pump into the atmosphere every day without batting an eye, I don't understand how you can justify batting an eye at me (in my smoking area which should be away from you unless your dumb enough to come sit down next to me and park your kid's stroller at my feet!) and my Marlboro.

Cigerettes are not healthy, but that does not mean I am going to chase the smokers down the lane with a burning torch or cigarette lighter.

Good, `cause I don't run fast, but I fight dirty. :D:

It is their RIGHT to smoke, just as it is a non-smoker's right to NOT have to inhale the second hand smoke. I think we can agree on that point.

In fact, we already have agreed on that point. Why are people still chiming in with their two cents about how much they hate us coming out of our cages [designated smoking areas]? We know! We don't do it if it can be helped! Don't come tapping on the glass and we won't have issues! [And nobody had better dare give me a dirty look for smoking while walking down the sidewalk on a red smog alert day in DC]

I just felt IC's post was somewhat hostile and I did not understand the vehemence with which she went after the comment about smoking allergies. That's all.

Honestly she was probably (as a more recent ex-smoker) just as sick of the good ones being persecuted as smokers are. Some of the things that have been said in this thread have been absolutely despicable and would have me fighting in a second if anyone was ever man enough to say them to my face. People are a lot braver behind the mask of anonymity the internet provides and, therefore, say a lot of things that can be very rude. (most of that wasn't you ICSP, but it was certainly a reason that, in my mind would make posters on one side of this thread a little hostile.) Further, she's pretty smart, so I suspect she has a reason for her claim about smoke allergies. I'm not going to try to argue that point more though as (a) if she's got evidence, it's probably better than mine and (b) I don't give a rodent's rectum. I will, however, add that there are certain people in the world who, in my opinion, have full license to act however they want and I will back them up until the end of time. ICSP is on that list. That's just how I roll. (I've always wanted a reason to use that phrase! I feel like one of the cool kids now!)

I quit smoking because I wanted to. I was tired of spending so much money on the things and I did not like the way my clothes, hair, and breath smelled. I feel better and actually after the first 6 months could taste foods better and smell better, which in some cases I wish I could not. Ever ride the 55 bus from Berkeley to East Oakland! Phew! Now that is one smelly bus! Those were the times I wish I had the cig smell to cover up the really malodorous air!
I am not going to flame anyone, I like everyone here! I just wanted to make it clear that YES, people CAN have allergies to cigs, and it is NOT bullshit to say they do.
Susi

Congratulations on your strength of willpower and character. Been a while since I rode public transport in East Bay, but I'll take your word for it. I don't like many people at all, but some of the ones I do like are here. About the allergies thing, I sill feel a moral obligation to let ICSP respond for herself, but like I said, I don't care. At least we're in agreement that if I (the smoking community) stay in my corner (designated smoking areas) trying not to bother you (non-smokers), you won't come around with intent to be bothered by me and my smoke, right?

Joshua

[Big Wallaby]

...I sill feel a moral obligation to let ICSP respond for herself...

Yeah, like you could stop her :D:

One thing you have to remember about ICSP... I don't say this to defend or convict her, but I get the sense that she would agree with me when I say she's very black and white in her ways. I often feel the same way on things... Pick a side and go with it so I can work with/around you, and with her it's not hard to see where she stands (especially since she all but prints her stance on a 40' banner and hangs it below the SGT sign out front). She's loud and maybe a bit reckless, and now that I've got to know her, it makes me laugh. So don't take anything she says as a personal attack... she's just loudly straightforward... now, if only the west coast could get more people like that...

I'm just sayin'...

[PrinceOfSka]

I think the point was that enough smokers neglect the rules that it becomes irritating and sometimes dangerous to non-smokers... that is why so many people have spoke up.

You (responding to everyone) are probably here because you are either a cast member or a not so stupid guest... Therefore, you probably are not the ones (if you are a smoker) that these people are talking about when they complain. As far as I remember, no one on this thread has claimed "hey shut up, I want to smoke everywhere and while I see Mickey, and blow it in little suzie's face when I see her!" It sounds like the people here respect the rules... So I don't think anything should be taken as a personal attack. Just like a gripe about Brazilians, if you are here and you a Brazilian there is a good chance you are not the Brazilians that are being griped about.

and to further state that I was one of the jerks that said nasty stuff to say to people smoking out of place- however I did say that I AM in fact a jerk, and it doesn't bother me that people think that. while not working, I wouldn't come up to someone who was five feet out of the section and say those things. However, if someone is in line for spaceship earth and have a lit cig in their hand - on certain days I would probably make fun of them to their face, or at least where they can overhear it. On others I would ask them to put it out. I take it as they have already set the "rude" tone for our conversation, since they are violating the rules and could possibly be endangering others (lets forget second hand smoke and consider lit flame in a non designated area... or as someone already said, little suzie is at eye level to a lit cig casually in one's hand).

I don't have a problem with smokers, my mom is a lifer - however, I do think that there is a natural animosity on the part of non smokers towards smokers. This is probably because at most places of work smokers get extra breaks!!! :p:

as for that smog example, even though I do agree that that is probably the reason more kids are developing asthma these days, I don't think the methodology can be sound. I could claim that more solar panels (which are also on the rise) are causing asthma... just because something is going up doesn't mean it is to blame... though unless one can link asthma to say, smoking parents - I don't see how anyone can say smoking is rasing Asthma rates... As i said earlier, its all about who pays the scientists to research... :( (read State of Fear by Micheal Crichton for good fictional examples)


anyway... the point is lets not jump down anyones throat about this whole topic, we are all here because we know there are OTHER people who do stupid things in the parks more often than we do :P:

[Elena (aka: Bubble Lady)]

[font=Palatino Linotype] i'm sure it was just said in jest, but no one asked me if i was interested in having any of the smoking areas in the places they are in disneyland...they've had them in some HORRIBLE places...dark, secluded places...some so small that there wasn't enough room for everyone...one place was like an alleyway and very narrow...i don't think there was a place to sit in that one...as it is there are few places to sit in any of them...the one in tomorrowland is the newest one...they moved it from between the matterhorn and autopia when nemo opened and they needed the space for the queue...we do get some very ugly looks and even uglier comments as people go walking by...WE DIDN'T CHOOSE THAT AREA...it is out of the way...and it is in a relatively closed in space...the one that gets me is the one by the rivers of america...during fantasmic it becomes so full as to be overflowing with people, but most of them are non-smokers...when we go in and light our cigs people start coughing and hacking and waving their hands...sometimes we gently point out that they are in a smoking area...the last time it was full like that and smokers were having to stand outside of the corral a cm finally came down and made an announcement that anyone in the smoking area who was not a smoker had to leave...it was the first time i've heard of that announcement...another problem with the smoking areas at disneyland is they keep changing them...the one in new orleans/frontierland has changed 3 or 4 times...the one in tomorrowland has changed about 5 times...there used to be a spot on main street too, but it disappeared completely...we NEVER EVER smoke outside of a designated smoking area

i've gotta say this cuz i found it so funny...we were in the smoking area in tomorrowland...many people walk by with their shirts pulled up over their noses...one day my nephew (he's 42 and also a smoker) was meeting us there and came walking up with his shirt pulled up over his mouth and nose, but he was smoking a cig...it was the funniest thing i'd seen in a very long time :hysteria: ...and he got a lot of the other smokers laughing too...and a lot of stares from people walking to the train

but does anyone remember that walt disney smoked? (yes, yes, i know he died of lung cancer, but many people who never smoked also have died of lung cancer...btw i also have asthma - adult onset...have also had a bypass - crappy genetics (thanks dad) )...but what would walt think about us being corralled? [/font]

[Big Wallaby]

And if you watch old Disney cartoons, you'll find that there are a lot of cigars and cigarettes. In fact, I was at the All Star Music the other night with KidAtHeart and company, where they have a statue of the Three Caballeros. Guess what... one of them has a cigar! I thought it was hilarious, and wondered how they got away with it.

If you really wanted to argue and twist things, you might be able to argue the point--and do it well--that smoking is part of the Disney history. The Disney point? It's not actually because pointing with two fingers is less offensive than with one... it's because when Walt pointed, he had a cigarette between his fingers and always pointed with two fingers. I don't claim that that's a true fact, but it's interesting in this conversation.

[BRWombat]

... smoking is part of the Disney history. ...

Or is it??? Just kidding, that is true, but not a part of the history that they like to call attention to. Take this pic of Walt found on the two cruise ships at the entry to his namesake theater. According to a 'backstage' ship's tour, in the original image, Walt is holding a lit cigarette. DCL later replaced several of the tiles, after airbrushing out the cigarette and any wisps of smoke.

[Princess Susi]

And if you watch old Disney cartoons, you'll find that there are a lot of cigars and cigarettes. In fact, I was at the All Star Music the other night with KidAtHeart and company, where they have a statue of the Three Caballeros. Guess what... one of them has a cigar! I thought it was hilarious, and wondered how they got away with it.

If you really wanted to argue and twist things, you might be able to argue the point--and do it well--that smoking is part of the Disney history. The Disney point? It's not actually because pointing with two fingers is less offensive than with one... it's because when Walt pointed, he had a cigarette between his fingers and always pointed with two fingers. I don't claim that that's a true fact, but it's interesting in this conversation.

A very interesting point (pardon my pun...) but true, that is how someone who had a cigarette dangling between two fingers would point!
Susi

[Princess Susi]

I am sorry if I riled anyone up, I believe in everyone's right to do whatever they want in regards to smoking. I guess I was trying to present a scientific answer to the point of the original post. I love you all and this is my favorite site. We ARE all here for the same reason , to poke the SGs, not each other and if I poked my fellow posters, I truly am sorry. I also have a tendency to say what is on my mind, I don't worry too much anymore about what people think of me, like I did when I was in my teens and twenties. I try to be polite about it and if I sometimes am not, I claim the Menopause defense! :pitchfork That's my story, and I am stickin' to it! :p:

BTW, love the pic of Walt leaning on the piano, one can just "see" the cig in between his fingers and the smoke curling up around him. The original picture would be much better and have more atmosphere, like an old 30's or 40's movie, but in this PC world I guess they felt they MUST remove it to protect everyone from their evil urges to smoke! ( she said, with tongue firmly in her cheek) :toncheek: her OWN tongue, ya'll, get your mind outa the gutter so mine can float by! :hysteria: just trying to catch you before someone says it...