Some Names

[Shorty82]

Today's headlines:

Two Police Officers Shot And Killed In Kansas... 3-Year-Old Accidentally Shoots Himself, Dies... Gunman At Large After Shooting Victim 4 Times... Man Shoots Wife... One Person Shot In San Antonio, Gunman Later Shot By Cops... Woman Shot At Campground... Woman Shot To Death, Son 'Thought She Was Sleeping'... 3 Gunned Down In Grand Rapids

Even if guns were illegal and unobtainable I bet most of these would have still happened but instead they would have used a knife or something. A gun was only the tool used, do you blame the knife when someone is stabbed, do you blame the hammer when someone is bludgeoned? These crimes were committed by people who needed help but for whatever reason didn't get it (nobody realized they had problems, the refused, whatever).

One of the more tragic of these headlines (not that any aren't tragic) is the 3-year old who shot himself. I know nothing about the case but what the headline says but it was most likely caused by careless storage of the gun. Guns should always be stored unloaded, locked (preferably in a safe of some sort or at a minimum using a cable lock) and out of reach, especially if there are children around. I know many, many people who grew up in households with guns and not one was hurt or killed by a gun nor would they ever even think about using one against another person. The guns were stored properly and they were taught how to handle guns properly.

That's one of the biggest problems, kids aren't being taught what to do if they see a gun. They should be taught that guns are not toys and if they see a gun they should NEVER touch it or pick it up and to tell a parent, teacher, policeman, other responsible adult right away.

[hobie16]

I could put forward a number of arguments that would blunt all of your points. Instead of that I'll just say that, in light of the present circumstances, you are extremely tone deaf. All you've done is regurgitate NRA talking points.

Where are the NRA cowards? Why did they take their Facebook site down? You, and the NRA, are are on the wrong side of a movement that will not be silenced by the NRA cowards again. Ever.

You can decide to either get on board or get out of the way as, one way or another, change is gonna come.

[hobie16]

One of the Four Horsemen writes in.

A Message To The NRA From The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse

Hey, guys.

Pestilence here. The other riders and I are pretty busy lately, but we wanted to take a moment and make something clear. In the days ahead many of you will be deploying some pretty stupid arguments against gun control in this country. The whole "cars are deadly, knives are deadly, Nazis started this, and anyway, what about abortion?" kind of dealie. God, it makes our heads hurt just thinking about it. When you write this stuff you make the internet even more stupid than it already is. Instead of wading into this nonsense we wanted to just address one very specific notion you'll be sharing with your friends on Facebook.

You really think gun ownership protects you from the government taking your rights.

This isn't even an argument at all. It's a poorly-conceived Red Dawn fantasy. You say things like this, because in some ugly part of your brain you want to see yourself fighting the globalist army after the collapse of our country. And you have that particular dream because you're old and white, and you're afraid of the way this country is changing. The guns give you a feeling of control.

Okay, well, first of all... when the balloon really goes up you're certainly going to die very, very quickly. It won't be like the movies, trust us. You will lumber down into your basement to start the generator, and you will trip, cut yourself on a rusty lawn mower part, or maybe just have a massive cardiac, because you're overweight, and the only thing you stand a chance against with that AK-47 is a deer. There's a whole political party devoted to telling people like you - the most soft and privileged and pampered members of this wonderful country - that you're some hardy band of rebels fighting oppression. That little fairy tale will evaporate before Glenn Beck collects his gold chips.

Secondly, there really are people fighting against government tyranny. But they're unarmed. They're reporters, and lawyers, and human rights weenies from Europe. They try to make politicians and bureaucrats accountable for the terrible things they can do. Sometimes they even succeed. Occasionally there's a subcommittee meeting, or a scandal, or a change in the law, or a politician loses his job or even goes to jail. Once upon a time, a couple of commie reporters helped remove a sitting president of the United States. You and your camping buddies playing soldier in the woods have never even come close to that.

Say what you want about guns... just don't act like it's about defending freedom. You're not defending anything. Your stupid game prevents us from ending a threat to public safety, but it is utterly irrelevant to the struggle for liberty in 21st century America. You want to do something real, start researching campaign donations, make FOIA tougher, call up a Congressman and bitch. Right now your biggest enemy is not a fleet of UN helicopters. It's an Olive Garden breadstick basket. Cut down on the carbs and grow the hell up.

Either way, it's not really our problem. Be seeing you.


One reply asked:

Hey hey NRA
How many kids
got shot today?

[DisneyMom]

Even if guns were illegal and unobtainable I bet most of these would have still happened but instead they would have used a knife or something. A gun was only the tool used, do you blame the knife when someone is stabbed, do you blame the hammer when someone is bludgeoned? These crimes were committed by people who needed help but for whatever reason didn't get it (nobody realized they had problems, the refused, whatever).

One of the more tragic of these headlines (not that any aren't tragic) is the 3-year old who shot himself. I know nothing about the case but what the headline says but it was most likely caused by careless storage of the gun. Guns should always be stored unloaded, locked (preferably in a safe of some sort or at a minimum using a cable lock) and out of reach, especially if there are children around. I know many, many people who grew up in households with guns and not one was hurt or killed by a gun nor would they ever even think about using one against another person. The guns were stored properly and they were taught how to handle guns properly.

That's one of the biggest problems, kids aren't being taught what to do if they see a gun. They should be taught that guns are not toys and if they see a gun they should NEVER touch it or pick it up and to tell a parent, teacher, policeman, other responsible adult right away.

Guns are really too dangerous to be accessable to children and the mentally ill/disabled.....why do we let just anybody get them? I've written before about my step-father who totes but is more likely to injure himself than actually stop an attack. Praying he never gets too mad at me Not Joking :mad:

[Big Wallaby]

Hi folks.

This thread has gone into the political realm. We have had multiple people who haven't even given agreement or disagreement comment that they fear the direction that this thread, and the disagreement it could spark between members of SGT, could provoke.

The members who have come to us I personally know to come from opposite sides of the political spectrum, with different views on this issue. They are all people I respect, though some I agree with on this issue and some I do not. But in the end, when we do discuss such major issues as this... and trust me, it IS major and important that it be discussed... SGT may or may not be the proper time and place.

This is a discussion in which the base on both sides is fear, either of one type of person or group of people, or another. Because fear is so heavily laced into this discussion, it doesn't take long before emotions run high, and a discussion of something of extreme importance like this can turn ugly very, very quickly. I have watched too many friends torn apart by emotional political debate, and I will not sit idly by and watch that happen here.

I, for one, have absolutely no intention of saying, nor do I believe that anyone has done any wrong in this thread, in stating their opinions thus far. I am sure that if I really wanted to I could find point fingers, but I see no reason to do that, I don't want to do it and I think it would be wrong to do to anyone who has posted in this thread for anything said. The thread has been kept civil; I just really don't want to wake up in the morning and discover that someone said something that brought together some dynamite and a flame.

Therefore, while the Mod team discusses they laying of some ground rules for this thread, as well as whether we really want to see such politically dangerous discussion played out on a site like SGT, I have closed this thread. Over the next day or so a decision will be made, and the answer will be listed here.

Hobie: Thank you for what you were doing here in remembering those killed so tragically. This terrible event in Connecticut must never be forgotten. Two members of this board have been more than just uncomfortably close to a school shooting in their lives: In 1998 I was visiting my grandmother, her house almost walking distance from Thurston High School in Springfield, Oregon when a 15-year-old student killed two of his classmates there. I was in high school at the time and so it did hit close to home.

Shortly after the news came out in Connecticut, I received a text message from Monorail_Red. He had been at the school where he works. His home is essentially halfway between the two schools. He is working through the thoughts and feelings, and is still a bit shaken up, understandably.

But we are not the only ones touched by these tragedies. If you have a child or children, or children in your life that you care about, you are affected by this. Several days ago, your kids might have joked about surviving the day at school. Today that's not funny, and in my mind it may never be again. This situation hits way too close to home for all of us. I can still imagine all the kids that I had on my school bus when I drove one. Had even one of those children gone to school and not made it home for any reason, I would not have dealt with it well. In my church and business, I have friends who have children that I interact and even play with on a regular basis and they bring out every ounce of my protective streak. I can't imagine how much stronger that is when the children are yours.

So we may or may not continue this discussion; I honestly don't know. But I do have one request. Those of you who have children... make sure once again that they know you love them. Make sure they know how precious they are to you. And when all is said and done, no matter which side and which solution to this kind of senseless violence you believe in, I trust and know that your reason for believing what you do is out of that love and desire to protect your children. In so many other issues, you can look at the people on the opposing side from your own and wonder what the hell they're thinking. But at the end of the day, this discussion and debate is the only one where everyone on both sides (and again, I am talking about the normal people that you and I come into contact with, not government officials who spend a lot of time in Washington, D.C. or at your city/state's official buildings) want the same thing: They want to know that their children will live a long, full life.