Stupid Guest Tricks

Amphigorey wrote:As a matter of fact, they aren't. Traditions, the training course that every Disney hire must go through, has been cut drastically from two days to a half-day. ... It's mostly corporate videos anyway....

pattimelt wrote:All the cm's can't be on the same page if they don't get direction from their leads. know when I work parades or guest control of any sort, I ask my leads if there are any special circumstances or rules I need to know about. Even when I've worked the parades 40 times or more now. Because each lead is different, and each day is different, and probably each section is different. Maybe it's different at WDW....

Okay, I've been trying to stay out of this, but I just can't. Please understand that what follows is based on my seven years on WDW's Main Street getting pulled to PAC whenever I couldn't avoid it.

Training is inadequate. Even though I got the full "two day" Traditions, it wouldn't have been near enough had I not already been with the program.

My training for PAC? Five words: "Don't worry, you'll do fine!" And that was it, despite repeated requests for further instruction.

Leads? WDW doesn't have them. We finally got some "coordinators", but they have no authority, and there's no way to call them -- or security -- before or during a parade.

As a result, CMs are out there alone, with no means of support, and no line of defense other than running backstage. Even those who *want* to do the right thing generally haven't got the tools for it.


Probably should move this to Stupid CM Tricks, but I'm rolling:

Working at Plaza, I was told to do the "human stanchion" act and block the street with my counterpart from the opposite side, moving guests to the sidewalk. Fine, that's what the manager wants, I can do that.

After about 20 minutes of this, a different manager comes up and points out the crowd that has settled down in the crosswalk and asks me, "We need those crosswalks clear. Can you move those folks out of there?"

I give the crowd an appraising look, think of how long they've been there, and reply, "Not without automatic weapons, sir."

Dissatisfied with my reply, he offered to show me how to do it. The guests didn't actually stuff him into a trash can, but they did offer to. That parade ran with no access from Tomorrowland to First Aid.

And this is the quality of support we get when we do get any.


I could suggest that things may have gotten worse lately because Main Street took over the hub area from TL and FL, which means the cast is spread thinner with fewer experienced CMs. I could also suggest that the quality of management there has been declining since I left. I could even put some of the blame on the Area Manager who chased me out, but I'm too cool for that (mostly).

EeyoresButterfly wrote: I will admit that I get extremely defensive whenever I see people talk about poor training of the CMs or lack of pay, etc. I did the 1/2 day Traditions and then my area training, and I was told that my area had one of the best groups of CMs. Disney did not hide from us what they pay. Do I wish they paid more? Yes. But it is my choice to work the job, I don't need somebody who has never worked there complaining about my lack of appropriate training in one breath then taking pity on me because of low pay in the next. I take great pride in any job that I do, and I don't want people trying to say how badly I am treated or how little I am paid, I simply want them to appreciate the job I do.

Job appreciation is very important; that's one thing that every manager should learn. It's why working in one area can suck royally, but doing the exact same job in a different area can be great: just because of one's immediate management and how much they make their employees feel appreciated. I'm sure you've experienced this (hello, Animal Kingdom).

Of course you do a wonderful job, regardless of pay. But you know those sucky co-workers who don't make the magic, and just treat it like an annoying job? If Disney paid more, they could afford to be more picky, and hire the ones who really want to be there instead of hiring everyone they can get their hands on. As it is, they're lucky to still have people who genuinely want to make magic.

The other reason the pay bothers me is the extreme economic stratification I see in the Orlando area. This isn't exclusively Disney's fault, of course, but they played a huge role in building up the tourism-based economy.

As for Traditions, with all due respect, EB, I think you came pre-pixie dusted. :) I'm sure there are plenty of CMs out there who could use that extra helping.

Man, if somebody blocked my view and especially to block it by leaning over to take pictures, I'd make sure they got a nice, fat "bird" in their picture! If they ask why, I would make very sure to tell them why, in no uncertain terms. I see this as setting a dangerous precedent: There was a time the disabled were hidden away from the public except in freak shows. The disabled had to fight to have the same rights as able-bodied people, and now it seems those rights are being endangered by people's self-centeredness.

Right now I'm battling a case of shingles on my face, and I'm trying to keep cool when I'm in public. Mainly, I avoid meeting people's gaze, keep the affected side of my face out of view, and if someone does look at me, I smile and act gracious. Yesterday I had to run into the store for milk, and while there I needed some eyedrops. At the checkout, the cashier saw I had the name of a retail property company on my shirt. She asked about that, and I told her someone gave me the shirt years ago. I think she was trying to make conversation without asking "What the heck is wrong with your eye/face?" Hey, she gets props for being discreet!

According to the research I've done on shingles, the rash goes away in 2-4 weeks, It's coming up on two weeks now. Damn....

I have been going to amusement parks, fairs and other public events most of my life, like 48 years. I get defensive and irate about parades due to experience.

You MUST get up NOW and not later or people will step on your body, purse, kids, clothing, blankets, food, and drinks because it is your fault you are in the way.

I have had people set on my purse, kick items of mine, set right up against me, scoot up to where I was getting a rump thumping, had wailing people in my face and more. It is annoying when people park without asking if the spot is taken. It is frustrating when people think 8 people and 15 kids can set down in a 3 square foot spot without hurting anyone.

I have had people blocking views and like fer sure dont get that I and others want to see the parade or fireworks.

I have had happen to me and others so much bad things that I come prepared for armageddon and full out war.

It is time for Disney to do something about its management of parks or lack of it. but they dont seem to care any more.

I think alot of the problems mentioned can be atributed to quantity over quality. If we can get MORE people into an area, we will, regardless of what kind of viewing experience that creates. I certainly understand wanting to open shows, parades, etc. up to more people, but not at the cost of making it a bad or uncomfortable experience for others.

As for training, DHS has one thing going for it that the other parks don't. We have a set PAC crew who generally work the parade every day. We know what we're doing. We do get rescues in from foods or merch, and they come to us with little or no understanding of what they're supposed to do. The PAC crew generally end up doing those fill-in people's jobs along with their own, but at least they know that they have to do that and there usually are enough of them to do it well. I have noticed fewer of the ODF and Merch people filling in, and I suspect that came out of complaints from the PAC crew that they were being phased out of working the parade THEY were trained for by staff who not only lacked training but in most cases didn't want to be there. The coordinators only job during parade is to walk the parade route and assist PAC cms and the managers are also visible and available. It's a far better system, but probably impossible for the other parks to implement. The only thing that makes it possible at DHS is Fantasmic, which is where all those PAC people go to work after the parade. It makes a perfect shift - High School Musical, PAC, Home or PAC, High School Musical, Fantasmic, Home. And because of it, you generally get the same people, in the same positions every parade. We still get the typical CP folks who learn the job just in time to go home, or the cms who took the job only for the free access to the park and have no intention of actually working. We still get folks who would rather watch the parade than the crowd. But for the most part, we tend to have better trained staff and better crowd control than any other park.

EB, I don't go into the situations angry. In fact, I don't go into them at all, with parades anymore because I'm not a parade person. The last time I did it was last fall because my daughter had never seen Spectro and wanted to (we had avoided it on all previous trips due to the very issues discussed in this thread) I forgot to say that my all time favorite 'parade' was tapestry and it was so great because no matter where you were in the WS if you were there a little early, you could interact with the people in the parade. They always reached out to touch my hand with their puppets and the memories of my daughter dancing in the parade is something I will cherish forever. But as for regular parades, not my thing.

I always go into the fireworks situations hoping for the best- but after so many bad experiences in the handicapped areas, you just kind of know what you're in for, and you do what you can to avoid it. For me that means for the shows I feel are must dos like Illuminations and Wishes, I make compromises (like viewing behind the huge bush/tree, as I mentioned)

But I don't go in expecting the worst of the CMs, best handicapped viewing area CM we ever had was on our trip last year at Epcot, by Canada, he was a CP-er and I remember his name but won't post it- I stopped and filled in a card about him before we left the park. We went back to his section twice because he was so great. He actually didn' tlet anyone stand in front of my chair or the ECV my father was on (first time he'd ever had to use an ECV in WDW and he HATED it, but it was necessary).

So I go in with a smile and open minded- I just don't go into the other viewing areas anymore. I won't even try for a show like Fantasmic because I am just not willing to wait the amount of time it would take to get in to see it, and I"m not going to roll up at the last minute and expect them to find me a spot because I'm in a chair.

I am as pro-cm as you're ever going to find in a guest- if there is good to be found and praised, I find it and praise it and in writing too. I keep a notebook in my purse and write down names as we go. I don't do that when bad things happen- I'll mention the situation but not the name, because I hate having to say anything at all negative about WDW or CM's ever.

The good far outweighs the bad or I wouldn't still be going there.

But I agree that it's ridiculous to expect someone to work at WDW with half a day's Traditions. Hell, back in 1989 when I was one of two dozen hired out of hundreds who applied to cast the first Disney Store in our state, they flew someone out from California to do a three day Traditions course with us! And we were just opening a store, not workng in the parks! I am so sad that they don't even do that much for the WDW cm's now. That course is one of the fondest memories of my life. I wish all of you working there now could have experienced it, it was a wonderful thing.

I also want to personally state that I do not swear, yell, physically assault or otherwise 'go after' people who slight me in these parade/fireworks situations. It would do me no good. I am as threatening as a harp seal puppy. I just have no credibility that I'm going to follow through on anything so there's no point in being hostile. I have suffered through asthma attacks from non-disabled guests forcing their way beyond the ropes then blowing smoke in my face when my chair was trapped between other chairs all around, my husband was separated from me and I physically could not get away from the smoke, then had the smoker glare at me when I got out my inhaler to use it so I could breathe!

So I'm not hostile. I just know that disabled people do not and will not ever get an equal expereince in the parks to their able bodied counterparts. Not until the day we never have to beg for a ramp at a boat dock, don't have to endure the dirty looks from other guests when they take us in the side entrance for rides where the queues aren't accessible, and don't have to worry about people's keisters in our faces at the fireworks.

Until that day, we get what we get, and I figure, hey ,we're still in WDW. Best place in the world to be, it can't all be that bad.

Bru

PS: I still have my Traditions pin and "diploma" among my treasures. My handbook is missing- I think my ex-husband got rid of it during ugly divorce proceedings because he knew how much it meant to me (along with the Luke Skywalker autograph I got when I was 12. . .)



Bru

This one is just for Susi-

Susi, I won't claim that I know exactly what you're feeling and going through but I worry about how hard it's been on you, watching the changes in your health take place. I feel really sad when I think that other people got to you so bad that (If i'm reading this right?) there were days on your WDW trip where you stayed in because you didn't want to face the looks and judgments of others.

Being I've been sickly all my life I can't imagine how horrible it must be to start out healthy and then get sicker. I know sick getting sicker- but never remember healthy. I hope and pray that the surgery will help you but in the meantime I urge you to find a safe person to talk to some more about these changes you've had to endure before you go in for surgery. Talk to a doctor, a nurse, maybe some sort of support group either online for people with chronic pain or offline locally if that appeals to you more.

Suffering is hard enough- no one should have to suffer alone. Chronic, incapacitating, debilatating pain that robs you of your independence, your ability to work, and your sense of self is something that fortunately, most people do not have to deal with until they are very elderly. The only thing is that since they have not experienced it, they think that they understand what you are going through if they've ever had an injury or nagging pain here or there. Even having pain in one location of your body is not the same as the kind of pain that you and I live with, every day, every hour, every moment of our lives.

It makes us more sensitive, the pain. Puts us automatically on edge. We do the best we can with it, but the people who love us (and live with us) know when we're hurting more than we do, most of the time. I had a young pilot in the line at Security at the airport in April look at me sympathetically when I told him to go ahead of me, because I was moving slowly, and he looked at me and said "And you're in a considerable amount of pain, aren't you?" he was so sympathetic and kind, i nearly burst into tears. Not condescending, he just understood. I was thinking that he must love someone who lives with chronic pain.

Be kind to yourself- seek out understanding from those who can offer it, and don't worry about the rest. Don't try to make them get it- because like SGs they won't ever get it- and you're wasting precious energy and time in the attempt to explain the inexplicable.

gentle hugs. ..

Bru

Bru, I urge you to try Fantasmic at WDW next time you're there. We have extremely ample seating for guests in wheelchairs and you don't have to get there that early to get it. Worse case scenario is you arrive 15 or 20 minutes before showtime and get turned away. No big deal. We almost never turn people away until actual show time though, and even then we usually still have enough space for a guest in a wheelchair to sit even if their companion(s) have to stand in standing room. And we are MILITANT about not allowing guests to stand right behind the wheelchair seating. I've seen managers yell at cast members who decided that standing right behind the folks in the wheelchair accessible seats was a good idea. Biggest problem you'll have is getting to your seat. It is a hassle. Especially within 20 to 30 minutes to showtime, you'll find a large group of guests all trying to get to a seat at the same time. Add to that people leaving their seats for refreshments or bathrooms and those who have just gotten restless and are wandering around, and you have traffic going every which direction. It can be difficult to navigate this crowd on foot, but it becomes pretty scary in a wheelchair. We appoint "wheelchair walkers" who are responsible for trying to carve a path to get you to your seat. Most do a fairly good job of walking with you and at least attempting to get you to your section without anyone stepping in front of you or running you over. It's not easy though, and it's a few minutes of chaos. But it only lasts a few minutes and there's a cm right there with you to get you through it.

Theme Park Where wrote:Bru, I urge you to try Fantasmic at WDW next time you're there. We have extremely ample seating for guests in wheelchairs and you don't have to get there that early to get it. Worse case scenario is you arrive 15 or 20 minutes before showtime and get turned away. No big deal. We almost never turn people away until actual show time though, and even then we usually still have enough space for a guest in a wheelchair to sit even if their companion(s) have to stand in standing room. And we are MILITANT about not allowing guests to stand right behind the wheelchair seating. I've seen managers yell at cast members who decided that standing right behind the folks in the wheelchair accessible seats was a good idea. Biggest problem you'll have is getting to your seat. It is a hassle. Especially within 20 to 30 minutes to showtime, you'll find a large group of guests all trying to get to a seat at the same time. Add to that people leaving their seats for refreshments or bathrooms and those who have just gotten restless and are wandering around, and you have traffic going every which direction. It can be difficult to navigate this crowd on foot, but it becomes pretty scary in a wheelchair. We appoint "wheelchair walkers" who are responsible for trying to carve a path to get you to your seat. Most do a fairly good job of walking with you and at least attempting to get you to your section without anyone stepping in front of you or running you over. It's not easy though, and it's a few minutes of chaos. But it only lasts a few minutes and there's a cm right there with you to get you through it.

Good to know! Thanks so much for the info. I honestly have read on other boards how crazy people can get with seating for Fantasmic and that literally scared me off. Maybe next trip we'll give it a go knowing what you just told me! :) (along with visiting AK- but that's another thread LOL)

Bru

Thank you Bru...your kind words help me...I am so sorry you have such ongoing issues. You are far braver than I am. I have to learn to live within my limits and that is tough for someone who used to go 18 hours a day and was a workaholic. I can't do much of anything at all anymore. I can read and I can watch good Disney movies. :) And I can go online for shorter periods of time.

I cannot sit anymore for very long...It has gotten so much worse in the past couple months. It is reaching a new pinnacle of pain too. I never thought a body could hurt so much. I cry and cry and eat morphine and percocet and it does not help anymore. It takes an edge off the pain, but does not get rid of it like it used to. Surgery cannot come too soon. I wish it was tomorrow. It makes you depressed and angry. The depression is the worst. I can get over the angry part, but the depression just hangs over me like a drape. I don't want to hurt and there is nothing I can do about it.

Our trip was full of days where I spent the whole day in bed either because it hurt too much to get up that day or I could not take the looks and the actions of the idiots anymore. It depressed me to go out and have to deal with them. But there were days I really wanted to go out and could not physically. I just could not get up and move around in the chair or on the ECV. Even the slightest bump in the rug or the grout lines in the tile floors would cause a jolt that hurt.

My nerve is so on fire right now, I juys want it to calm down and not be crushed between two bones anymore. I know I cannot take much more of this. It is eating at me and I am not the same person I used to be. I am turning into a grumpy, crabby stressed out person who is in chronic and acute pain 24/7. No one can live that way for long. I am keeping focused on July 2nd when my life could change for the better.

And on top of all that, my only connection with the outside world is this computer. I don't go anywhere (except for the few Disney trips and I cannot do that again with my back like it is. I will have to wait to go back til after surgery.) and I can't work or volunteer anywhere. So I sit in the house all the time and have no friends here. Never made any.

It IS hard going to a wheel chair and in 24/7 excrucuating pain that robs you of the independence you once had. I am depressed and angry about it. If my posts sounded angry, they were. But I did NOT go looking for trouble. I don't do that.

Far from it. I wanted to see a parade and was having a pretty good day. I was happy and full from lunch and enjoying just being in Florida and at WDW! I was so glad that I was able to be in the place that makes me happiest, a Disney Park.

I rolled into the disabled area and started up a conversation with the woman next to me. She has MS and trigeminal nerve pain. Also turned out she lives in Denver, about 6 blockes from us! :) We exchanged phone numbers and watched the parade together. She is a WDW veteran, been there many, many times. I was chatting with her about Spectro and how I had seen it on youtube and was very excited about seeing it in person. I was not angry. I was happy and content and felt lucky that I had a great place to sit and could see the parade. I thanked Disney silently for the special disabled area and thanked them at City hall later in person, when I also told them of the crowds of non disabled trying to push through to the front, in front of the chairs and ECVS. That was when I also told them about the inconsistency of the CMs in GC that were assigned to the disabled area.

It was NOT until AFTER the SGs started pulling their crap that I started to get first irritated, then angry, then I felt like they really did not give two shits about the fact that it was a disabled area and they were going to take what they wanted, the prime viewing space and not even think twice about the people who were rthere in chairs and on ECVs. Nothing mattered to them except themselves and their entitled feeling of getting what they wanted and damn anyone else who is in their way. :mad:

So no, I did not go in looking for a fight and angry to start with, it was when I got treated like a piece of furniture or get the pity looks and the angry "How dare you be in on an ECV?" looks that I start to feel a little angry with the SGs. And the CMs doing nothing about the able bodied SGs that were crowding out the disabled in the disabled area. That upset me.

EB, you can be as defensive as you want about my statements about CMs with no training and lack of inconsistency, but the truth is, they were there and they should be either trained better, or they should not be working at a Disney park. I did not say all CMs are lilke that. Far from it. I ran into some that lacked training and common sense as well. They could not think on our feet. And it may be that they would be just as incompetent in any other job as well.

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