Your FP says 9:40...it's 6:15..

[ktulu]

The reason I hate it has to do with long term Disney joy and attitude that FP contributes in stomping into the ground. So in one sense you are correct. The hate usually comes from a place caused by the lack of knowledge of the system. The problem is that the hate isn't against the FP, it's leveled against Disney itself. To make a long story short it has created an unintentional cast system that not only separates the haves from the have nots, it blatantly rubs it in their faces.

Anyone can get a fastpass, provided they are available. So I sez, I can have fastpass!

[delsdad]

I, on the other hand, hate Fastpass itself. Not because it allows people to go ahead in line (cause as we all know and I'm sure will be repeated incorrectly, that "everyone can get one") but because of the bitter taste it leaves in the standby line from people that may or may not know how Fastpass works. It's that lingering effect that causes my concern. It's the long range negative feeling that could influence whether or not people return for a second or third or in my case...looking at my 30th, return trip. That will eventually catch up with park attendance numbers and be costly to the parks. Just to head off yet another predictable statement of "Good then I will have the whole park to myself", I hope you also can handle the Billion dollar cost per ticket if you are the only visitor. :twisted:

And that's all I have to say about that!

THose who dont know how FP works really have no excuse. If they pulled out their free park map, there is a whole section explaining it. And there are those friendly cast members near the FP machine who could also explain it to them. no excuse for not using the resources available freely to them.

It seems to me that those who don't use the free and available resources to ensure that they have the best time in the parks are really SG. The maps and cast members are everywhere. If they choose not to use the resource, but would rather complain that the lines are too long, that those other people are getting to to ride first, then they are really acting like an SG. If I get to Epcot late and all the FP are gone for Soaring, I understand that that is what happens at some of the most popular attractions. And that is one of the reasons we choose to arrive first thing in the morning at rope drop.

While it is fine to dislike the concept of FP, the fact is that the system is in place and we can either use it or not, the choice is ours. If one chooses to not use FP, just on principal, thats fine, but I think that the consequence of that, waiting in a long standby line must be accepted.

[Goofyernmost]

While it is fine to dislike the concept of FP, the fact is that the system is in place and we can either use it or not, the choice is ours. If one chooses to not use FP, just on principal, thats fine, but I think that the consequence of that, waiting in a long standby line must be accepted.

I don't recall saying that I didn't use them...what I said was that I didn't like the overall effect that it has on the public. Fault is not the issue here. I am not stupid, I realize that you would practically have to be in a coma not to know about Fastpass. But we are talking about SG's here, no rational thoughts are going to change that.

I remember the pre-fastpass days. To be honest I don't remember any lines even close to the length of today's waits in standby. We all waited "equally" in the line for our turn. When we got to the front...we were next. No stopping to let a group of 20 or more FP in first while we waited and cooled our heals. Minor gripping happened but nothing even close to the anger that is displayed now. It just isn't good for the Disney image, in my opinion. Perhaps if FP was available to the majority, that would help, but with the restrictions that are present...my guess is 30% of all riders can get one if they want...perhaps it wouldn't be that bad.

To say that there is no reason why anyone wouldn't know that FP existed is legitimate in a perfect world, but that certainly is not the case for a large portion of Theme Park Visitors.

I think back to the number of times that I had to go into standby lines because all the FP's were gone...I remember thinking that I would have felt better if Disney had charged extra for them, then at least I made the decision to save money...I'd feel better about it. I'd know that those folks got on ahead of me, but it cost them. So if 30% of all riders can get a FP, then 70% of the riders cannot, could not, however you want to say it. It just seems like it isn't the best idea to piss off the majority to make the minority happy.

[WEDFan]

For my own part, I really would hate to see priority for a price options. Personally, I could afford to pay extra, but somehow it seems less egalitarian to me. If there is no priority at all, or if a system like Fast Pass is being used, then everyone can do something to help themselves to see the most popular attractions. You can choose to get up early, or seek out the popular rides early, or take advantage of Fast Pass. If it requires money, though, some people won't be able to do it. Another thing I worry about is the management of the scarce resources. With Fast Pass, the system knows how many it has handed out. With a pay system, it seems to me that predicting the usage patterns would be much more difficult. With the current system, if it starts becoming more difficult to manage, Disney can start enforcing the end time. With a pay system, there is nothing that can really be done to smooth out the usage by priority guests. And if people have paid for a privilege you can be sure they'll really pull the "I paid X for this" and be more justified than they are today in the claim.

All that being said, I'm don't think I'd be impacted too much one way or another. We don't use Fast Pass too much as is, since we don't go during the very busy times, and we always get to the parks early. Still, the option that seems most likely to impact us would be a pay system.

Just my 2 cents as a semi-frequent guest.

[kurtisnelson]

With a pay system, it seems to me that predicting the usage patterns would be much more difficult.

That is exactly Universal's problem. If you have noticed, their standby estimates tend to be unreliable. This is due to there being no metering on returns, all the express users in a park could all go to the attraction at the same time. This would be way worse at disney due to there being more parades. Think about how post parade dump is pretty bad at Splash/Thunder due to the hour's worth of return all tending to drop in at 3:40.

[WEDFan]

That is exactly Universal's problem. If you have noticed, their standby estimates tend to be unreliable. This is due to there being no metering on returns, all the express users in a park could all go to the attraction at the same time. This would be way worse at disney due to there being more parades. Think about how post parade dump is pretty bad at Splash/Thunder due to the hour's worth of return all tending to drop in at 3:40.

That's exactly the type of thing I was thinking of. I hadn't heard how the whole system was working at Universal. Haven't been there since they instituted it. That's pretty much what I would expect, though. Another concern would be groups of thrill seekers that pay the premium to come in and ride the coasters/thrill rides over and over and over. They would have no incentive to go to other attractions. No downside to staying on the e-ticket rides.

[tlbwriter]

To make a long story short it has created an unintentional cast system that not only separates the haves from the have nots, it blatantly rubs it in their faces.

No pun intended? ;)

I, on the other hand, hate Fastpass itself. Not because it allows people to go ahead in line (cause as we all know and I'm sure will be repeated incorrectly, that "everyone can get one")

Why is it incorrect to say that everyone can get one?

but because of the bitter taste it leaves in the standby line from people that may or may not know how Fastpass works. It's that lingering effect that causes my concern. It's the long range negative feeling that could influence whether or not people return for a second or third or in my case...looking at my 30th, return trip. That will eventually catch up with park attendance numbers and be costly to the parks.

Doesn't seem to be an issue so far. And there are a good number of us who are MORE likely to go to WDW due to Fastpass.

[Lasolimu]

Why is it incorrect to say that everyone can get one?

It's incorrect because the number they give out on a daily basis is limited. Sure, everyone has the ability to try and use it, but that doesn't mean that everyone will be successful at getting them.

Doesn't seem to be an issue so far. And there are a good number of us who are MORE likely to go to WDW due to Fastpass.

I don't understand why you'd be more likely to go because of fastpass. Sure, it will get you through some lines(maybe one or two a day based on the limitations) a little bit faster, but the rest of the lines are longer because of it. If I was being asked what I thought about longer wait times I wouldn't say I prefer it and would be more likely to go because of it. I would guess that anyone that would be more likely to go because of fastpass never went before it was put it.

[Goofyernmost]

Why is it incorrect to say that everyone can get one?

Because there aren't enough fastpasses available for everyone to have one, if there were everyone would have one and then you would have a regular line with folks holding onto fastpasses.

This is how it works...for the sake of simplicity, let's say that there are 10,000 people that are going to ride Soarin today. All Disney has alloted for Fastpasses for soarin today is approx. 30% or 3000 of them. What that means is that 7000 of the people going to Soarin cannot possibly get a Fastpass because there are not that many available.

Part two of that argument is "then they should be getting out earlier and reading the brochere's and getting themselves a dang fastpass. OK, let's say that everyone knows that fastpass is offered for soarin and everyone knows that they are free and that they need to get there early in order to get one. With that scenario firmly in hand, here's what happens...10,000 people show up at rope drop and charge the Land Pavilion. By some wierd quirk, they all arrive at the Fastpass kiosk at the same time. Will all 10,000 guests receive a Fastpass, considering that all things are equal as far as knowledge and arrival. No, 3000 people will get one and only 3000 people will get one. There are no more available. That leaves 7000 stewing in the standby line watching 3000 people go in ahead of them. Might they end up in exactly the same place in line if Fastpass didn't exist, that is possible due to the natural order of things, but it wouldn't be an artificial order, it would be real.

Doesn't seem to be an issue so far. And there are a good number of us who are MORE likely to go to WDW due to Fastpass.

It is not an immediate issue...I believe I stated that, it is a long range issue. It is an issue that will not be visible until all that planned to go to a Disney Park have been there. Why people go to a park is multifaceted. I first went in 1983. There was no fastpass at the time. We all stood in the same line and made our way to the attraction. Those of us in line, didn't have Ipods or Blackberries or whatever, so we passed the time chatting with people from all over the country and the world. There was complaining about how long the lines were and good hearted comments about it. The thing is, it wasn't thought of as a bad thing but a necessary thing...leading to a fun thing. Now you hear swearing and cursing those going ahead, not because they don't understand how Fastpass works but because it is frustrating to get almost there and then have a parade end or show let out and then all of a sudden crowds of fastpass holders show up...some from the current window, some from hours back, whatever, they have legally cut in front of you without having to pay the dues of standing in the line. No matter how you rationalize that as being "sure that's the way it works" it doesn't stop the average person from feeling the frustration. So, back a few years ago we felt like complaining about the lines but we weren't angry about them, now we are. Carrying that a touch further...about a month ago my daughter brought my grandkids to WDW for the third of forth time. Do you think they would have ever gone that often if I had, when they were young, got so frustrated by Disneys Fastpass that I decided that the place sucked and I wasn't going to go again.

That, my friend, is happening. Instead of feeling good they are feeling anger. You can stay home and feel anger you don't have to spend thousands to do it. No...it's down the road that worries me. Yes, there are many "happy" fastpass users but don't loose sight of the fact that it is only 30% of the people that Disney Parks need to survive.

[BRWombat]

I've always kind of blandly supported FP, but the more I read these arguments, the more I like it.

Why? It's anti-SG. It rewards those who know what's available, what's going on, and who take affirmative steps to use that knowledge. The ones getting irate about another line being fed into an attraction are mad because of a "lack of knowledge of the system," as a previous poster said.

But it's not a complicated system. It's very well publicized, and not restricted to a few. If someone either does not understand it, or chooses not to take advantage of it, that's on them.