Another one bites the dust

[Honda Enoch]

Here is a list of opening day Disneyland attractions that are still there. I didn't remove the ones that have changed since opening day.

Horse-drawn Street Cars
Main Street Cinema
Disneyland Railroad (not original name)
Storybook Land Canal Boats (not original name)
Casey Jr. Circus Train
Dumbo Flying Elephants
King Arthur Carrousel
Mad Tea Party
Peter Pan's Flight
Snow White's Adventures
Autopia
Mark Twain Riverboat
Jungle Cruise

From here

Wow, short list. Or is that just the list of ALL the attractions at DL?

[Disneyguy85]

I'm still trying to figure out if Honda is for real or not, or if he is in fact just trying to annoy people.

If he is just trying to annoy people, then he REALLY belongs at board X.

Perhaps its a little from column A and a little from column B.

[Zazu]

Who said anything about FL belonging to Cinderella or Sleepy Beauty?
The castles belong to them.

No. The castles are *named* for them, hence "Cinderella Castle" and not "Cinderella's Castle". Common misconception.

One thinks back to the retarded idea of Rocket Rods.

Please, I'm trying not to.

[Disneyguy85]

Please, I'm trying not to.

Its ok, those were dark times for the management and that was an ill-fated idea due to lack of money invested in it.

[Shorty82]

Wow, short list. Or is that just the list of ALL the attractions at DL?

Those are opening day attractions that are still there.

[Disneyguy85]

"Wow, short list. Or is that just the list of ALL the attractions at DL?"

Why the condescending tone?

[Zazu]

... you have not been looking at Disney over the past 20 years.

No, I haven't, that's true.

I've been looking at Disney over the past 50 years. You haven't even visited all the US parks.

And no Walt did not LOVE DL. He hated the lack of space, he hated the final outcome of the park.

... Walt planed to build a MK park in another location (ended up being Florida) from the day DL was opened.

Having done extensive research on the decision to commit to Project X, I have never seen any such indication in any of my sources. Would you please tell us what sources you are using so we can come to a better understanding?

... because with your attitude, it will otherwise be very easy for us to disregard your contentions.

Sure take away a classic and FORCE a person that likes it to fly across the country to go see it. And I would not say that's a good thing in the way of toad. toad at DL is not even half the size of the one that was at WDW.

No, but WDW's Toad wasn't twice the size of Disneyland's, and it had two tracks, further subdividing the space. And be sure you're comparing the WDW version to the *improved* DL version -- it was lengthened during the "New Fantasyland" remodel.

[Shorty82]

ALL of them are original attractions.

Wrong. Below is your list with either a "True" for Opening Day attractions or a "False" followed by the date it opened for non-Opening Day attractions.

When I say original attractions I mean the ones that opened on Opening Day, October 1, 1971, or just a few days (2 or 3) later. Most Disney attractions are original in that they were designed by or for Disney exclusively so that isn't a good measure in this case.


MAIN STREET
Main Street Cinema - True
Penny Arcade - True
Swan Boats - False, opened May 20, 1974
The Walt Disney Story - False, opened April, 1973

ADVENTURELAND
Tropical Serenade - True
Pirates and the Caribbean (another movie tie in) - False, opened December 15, 1973

FRONTIERLAND
Admiral Joe Fowler Riverboat - True
Davy Crockett's Explorer Canoes - True
Diamond Horseshoe Revue Show Formats - True
Mike Fink Keel Boats - True

LIBERTY SQUARE
The Haunted Mansion - True

FANTASYLAND
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea - False, October 14, 1971
Dumbo, The Flying Elephant: Original Ride - True
Legend of the Lion King - False, opened in 1994
Magic Journeys - False, opened in the MK on December 15, 1987
Mickey Mouse Revue - True
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride - True
Skyway to Tomorrowland - True
Snow White's Scary Adventures: Original Ride - True

TOMORROWLAND
Carousel of Progress: The Best Time of Your Life - False, opened January 15, 1975
Circle-Vision 360 Films (America the Beautiful, Magic Carpet 'Round the World, American Journeys) - False, America the Beautiful opened on October 15, 1971
Flight to the Moon/Mission to Mars - False, opened December 24, 1971
Grand Prix Raceway / Tomorrowland Speedway - True
If You Had Wings/If You Could Fly - False - opened June 5, 1972
Skyway to Fantasyland - True
Star Jets - False, opened 1974
Timekeeper - False, opened November 21, 1994
WEDway PeopleMover - False, opened July 1, 1975

[Zazu]

So you think it's fair to people that can't travel across the country, for Disney to take their favorite rides away from their home park, making them miss out?

Whoa there!!! You write as if you believe people have a *right* to visit Disney parks and a *right* to have all attractions available forever. What's next, a bitch about them closing at night?

You need to remember that WDW is "show business". Like many amateurs, you have a great affinity for the "show", but no understanding of the "business". Once you gain one, you can take a more balanced view of things (presuming you want to).

Did I hate to see Mr. Toad close at MK? Certainly! I attended all of the Toad-In protests, and still think the closure was badly managed from the points of view of fans, cast members, and stockholders.

That said, I believe the change from Toad to Pooh was a wise "business" decision, and one I support. Exit polls showed that guests may have enjoyed Toad, but they had no idea what film it referred to or what other Disney properties it was linked to. No such problem with Pooh.

I mean, how many of us have Toad plush at home? Or would if it were on offer?

If Disney want to get people to visit both parks, then instead of removing things from one park, leaving them in another...

Again, the businesses have to work independently. You cannot let MK lose money simply because DL is making it. Each park has to "pay its own way" or face closure. Some times, sad though it is, the financial interests of the park dictate that some attractions be closed.

They can just add NEW things (in the space they have, no need to remove classics).[/qoute]
Yes, and you could send me a twenty dollar bill every week, but I don't think you will -- no matter how much I want it nor how easily you might be able to afford it -- because it's not in your financial interest to do so.

Similarly, if park management feels that an attraction is underperforming, they want to replace it with something that will do better. Leaving a poor attraction just because there's greenspace elsewhere is the way to lose money -- and your employment.

Truth is, Toad wasn't bringing guests in through the turnstiles, it wasn't promoting the sale of plush, photos, food, lodging, or anything else. It was therefore a negative element in the MK financial equation and that needed correction.

Yes, i quite agree that that isn't how Walt managed things. Walt is dead, we have a new system. Cope with it.

DCA has things that WDW does not, Like the new cars land. That s something that would get east coast people to go to DL.

It might indeed. Clearly, WDW management doesn't think it would bring in *enough* people to justify the investment, particularly when the concept hasn't yet been proven.

They don't have to take rides away from WDW to make us go to DL to find them.

Trust me, attendance at DL has *nothing* to do with attraction decisions at WDW nor vice versa.

I really feel bad that DL does not have a peoplemover anymore, especially since it was the original PM.

Fair enough. but is "feeling bad" a good business argument? Is that how you run *your* business? How is that working for you?

At least with Toad, though WDW's version was larger and more fast paced and exciting....

Based on what, your non-experience with the DL version?

Anyway my point is that Disney can still attract people from both coast to both parks without having to destroy the beloved park we all grew up with.

Sure, they could cast both parks in amber and still have a good number of people come to see the preserved remains. But they probably couldn't keep the doors open for long with such static offerings. And the management would be fired by the board, and the board fired by the stockholders. That's not how a well-run business works.

And I respectfully submit that Disney is a well-run business.

Yes, as a fan I would like for all those old and beloved attractions to be kept open forever. As a cast member, I'm glad for the many improvements in safety, including the ones that came at the cost of the show. As a stockholder, I won't put up with it.

And you shouldn't expect Disney, or any other business to ignore their bottom line -- show or no show.

[Zazu]

Was I a bit tweaked when they messed around with the Enchanted Tiki Room? You bet! (Sorry Zazu!)

No apology needed. Much as I prefer the original show (with the Offenbach joke) to either of the subsequent performances, a change was clearly needed. The last year of the MK show, guests would get up and walk out on every single performance I saw -- all of them. When those doors to the Florida sunshine opened, it really damaged the show, too.

But the guests were voting with their feet that something new was needed. Disney provided it. Like Imagination II (and III for that matter), I don't like it as well. But the old version had lost its audience and closure was unavoidable. I'm glad Disney made the change.

The extra change in my pocket doesn't hurt though.