Stupid Guest Tricks

You and I are not ever going to see eye to eye on this matter (not that a good debate ever hurt anyone). You have commented that the disability viewing areas are only for those with an actual disability, and that is simply not how the parks intended it, nor in my opinion how it should be. The parks have intended those viewing areas as a place where someone who has a disability can view with their family in the same manner as a guest without a disability is able to view parades, show, or fireworks with their families. They are designed as they are so that someone who has a need for special viewing doesn't have to arrive at the parade route earlier than everyone else to ensure a seat. They are designed so that families can enjoy time in the parks together in spite of one or more members of the party having a disability. That's why families are kept together in queues as well. I imagine that if you were in the park with a grandchild, nephew/niece, or another family member that you haven't seen in a long time or maybe have never met, and you were told that you couldn't enjoy an attraction together or couldn't sit together for a show or parade so you couldn't see your family member's reaction, you wouldn't be upset by that. That's you. But most families want to stay together and enjoy their day together. Why shouldn't they get to just because one member of their party is in a wheelchair? Most cast members I know are fairly good at being reasonable with larger parties (and most of the larger parties I've dealt with have been reasonable themselves). If you have a family of 20 people, you would have to get there really early to sit together anyway. But a normal family of 4, 5, or 6 people deserve to sit together. They have a right to enjoy the park just as much as everyone else, as a family.

You speak as if I would feel differently if I had a disability. I do. I have severe tendon problems in my feet, causing severe leg pain. I can walk, but only short periods of time. I don't ride in a wheelchair in the parks usually, because I have no one to push me and it's too expensive to rent an ECV, but I'm not that far from having no choice when I go into the parks. In an ECV I would be seriously upset if I was visiting the park with friends or family and couldn't enjoy their company during a parade or show because I was treated less fairly than able-bodied people. My mother, who always uses an ECV in the park doesn't deserve to sit all by herself either. And what do you do if you have a child in a wheelchair? Tell the parents they have to sit in another area to squeeze more wheelchairs in? Disney provides pretty ample space for disability viewing (at least they have in my experience) and those spaces don't fill up immediately. The last folks to get invited in to those spaces are usually there well after the rest of the viewing areas are full. That means they are getting seats no worse in a disability viewing area that's already got the front line filled than they would be if they were able-bodied and were looking for a spot outside of a disability viewing area.

The parks also set some policies concerning how many people can accompany a disabled person in a disability access area. The rule is 6 (or at least it was) but that is adjustable if a family has a legitimate request (for example, there are 8 members of an immediate family at the park). This keeps large groups like tour groups or school groups from using one wheelchair to get viewing for 20 people. Again, most of the cms I know are pretty aware of that and do their best to keep those large groups from taking up the whole space. They'll ask the rest of the group to find a space nearby or ask the whole group, including the disabled person, to find another location along the route if that's possible. If that's not happening, then it is a problem the parks need to address. But to require that a person with a disability leave their family behind in order to use the disability viewing areas isn't fair or equal treatment. If you and Ralph choose to split up to watch a parade or show, fine. That's your choice. But it's NOT your place to deny other guests from enjoying the park's activities with family and friends.

you need some strategy like putting bags in front of your to stake out a safe spot and womping people in your view. I would be screaming down in front very loudly. Also if possible I would also have any kids I could find parked on the ground in front of me even if not mine. OMG you are blocking the view of the kids sounds better and get your damned butt out of my way.

In the regular section they do the same thing which means planning to protect against last minute idiots.

Princess Susi wrote:continued from above post....

Are they not being trained well anymore? So much of the service and quality has slid and it is sad. :(

As a matter of fact, they aren't. Traditions, the training course that every Disney hire must go through, has been cut drastically from two days to a half-day. (At least, it was a half day in 2005; it's possible that it's gone back up again, but I doubt it.) It's mostly corporate videos anyway, and being stuck in a big conference room; it's not as fun as it once was.

IMO, the one thing that would REALLY help the service at Disney to improve would be to increase the pay rate for cast members. It's criminally low; when I was in Entertainment in 2005, I was getting $7.35 an hour. If Disney would offer better pay, then they would get better cast members. That's just how it works.

Not shirking on the training would also help. It sounds like you ran into a problem where different managers were telling CMs different things, which made your experience sucky. They need to fix that and make it consistent.

All the cm's can't be on the same page if they don't get direction from their leads. I know when I work parades or guest control of any sort, I ask my leads if there are any special circumstances or rules I need to know about. Even when I've worked the parades 40 times or more now. Because each lead is different, and each day is different, and probably each section is different.

Maybe it's different at WDW.. maybe it's not. But I know pretty much what to expect each day when I work a parade or do GC for the fireworks.. Things do change, however, which is why I speak to my lead and ask for anything I should know about the section in which I'm working.

And just for Amphigorey, pay now starts at $9.05 an hour here at the DLR.. so it's gone up some. It's not great, but some is better than none.

I'd just start coughing and getting some phlegm up and then comment on how I'd hope I'm not contagious like X person who I had just visited in the convalescents home dying. If that didn't work, one word, flatulence. Nothing like a good ole fart sound machine to at least amuse yourself :D:

I can see all sides of the issues involved, but most of the time I think the issue is someone just plain old being discourteous....all of the areas get SGs who think it is perfectly ok to either block someone's view who was already there, or squeeze in and bump and bruise their neighbor :mad: It is amazing there hasn't been more violence, but most people will just sit there and take it, or leave, so there isn't much to discourage the bad behavior. I'm glad I have an AP where I can go and not worry if I missed this or that (we mostly avoid parades and shows without designated seating), and I really feel for the people who have a limited opportunity and have unhappy experiences like Susi's.
I noticed lots of people last trip enjoying the fireworks sitting out in the esplanade between DCA and Disneyland. I'm wondering for the West Coast if OUTSIDE the park is the best viewing ?

ktulu wrote:I'd just start coughing and getting some phlegm up and then comment on how I'd hope I'm not contagious like X person who I had just visited in the convalescents home dying. If that didn't work, one word, flatulence. Nothing like a good ole fart sound machine to at least amuse yourself :D:

HAHAHA! I bought my Mom a jar of a putty a few years back that makes the most realistic fart noises ever!(I know we are weird!)
I should bring it next time we try to get a good spot for parade viewing! :D:

I didn't read all the banter back and forth but I just wanted to respond to ThemeParkWhere:

When we were at the Epcot viewing area for Illuminations AND at MK for Spectro and Wishes, they wouldn't let ANYONE in my party be by my wheelchair. They made everyone line up at the back of the section behind the wheelchairs- and so I had to watch the parades/fireworks without anyone in my family with me. I understood that, okay, line up the chairs and make everyone else go to the back, until I looked up and realized that behind me packed in like sardines between the chairs were complete strangers. Yup, I was afraid and nervous the whole parade/fireworks because not only couldn't I find my family but I had strangers pressed on all sides, at standing level, surrounding my chair. All I saw was their behinds.

So I don't understand why it's so awful to ask that one person be allowed to be with the wheelchair person when my experience has been that they allow none. Unless we sat at the very back of the viewing area (up against the ropes and I still couldn't see- a sacrifice I will make to hold hands with my husband and hear the music and see the really high flying shells.

This is why we have given up, as I said, on the handicapped viewing areas as they are. Because no matter what happens, I can't see, and I end up alone.

I think that if you have a big family, you have to camp out early at one of the non handicapped viewing points, and then everyone gets to view together without obstructing the view of the other disabled people. That's what we do now, regardless. We just take our chances out in the rest of the park and see what I can see- and live with it.

Doesn't matter. Soon if things keep going the way they are for me I'll be totally visually impaired and so it won't matter where I sit for the fireworks. As long as I can sit there and hear the music and hold my sweetie's hand, something I don't get to do much with him pushing my wheelchair all the time. then I'll be content with what I've got.

Bru

Princess Susi wrote:Zazu we need a Jimmy Buffet smiley!

One smiley buffet, er... smiling Buffet, coming up:

:wbuffet:

and if you don't like that one, I have another:

:buffet:

Maybe I am just misreading posts, but I sense a lot of anger from people before they even get into the situation. No, people should not stand in front of you or sit on your foot. However, in my experience if I nicely ask somebody to move or I calmly explain the situation, they comply. I don't have to resort to screaming or 'ass kicking'. It is my belief that if you go in angry and expecting the worst, that is exactly what you will see.

I will admit that I get extremely defensive whenever I see people talk about poor training of the CMs or lack of pay, etc. I did the 1/2 day Traditions and then my area training, and I was told that my area had one of the best groups of CMs. Disney did not hide from us what they pay. Do I wish they paid more? Yes. But it is my choice to work the job, I don't need somebody who has never worked there complaining about my lack of appropriate training in one breath then taking pity on me because of low pay in the next. I take great pride in any job that I do, and I don't want people trying to say how badly I am treated or how little I am paid, I simply want them to appreciate the job I do.

Yes, there will always be poorly trained CMs, rude guests, and things that go wrong that shouldn't. I saw plenty when I went over spring break, and I see plenty when I visit my bf at WoF. I look at it his way: I can choose to notice every little thing that goes wrong and get worked up about it and not enjoy my vacation. OR I can note it, feel peeved for a second, and then focus on the positive and enjoy myself. I choose the latter.

I apologize again if this not how you meant your posts to come across, but I could not help but notice the large amount of anger in your posts.