Refillable mugs

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Zazu
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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by Zazu » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:41 am

LeonardKinsey wrote:What I'd really love is for someone to get one of the new cups and hack the RFID data with a scanner and a program like RF-Dump (http://www.rf-dump.org/). That would confirm once and for all what was stored on the chip, including whether any identifying/sensitive guest info was on there.
Wouldn't do you much good. All that would result would be a number, and probably a binary one at that. While I agree that the most probable system would have a serial number lookup table, even if the data you listed were encoded into the RFID chip, you would have to know which bits were used for what data to make sense of it.

Given that Disney uses serial numbers for park tickets, and that an RFID with a fixed number is a whole lot less expensive than one which can be programmed, I think it exceedingly unlikely that any data will be on the chips.


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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by LeonardKinsey » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:13 am

Goofyernmost, I heard a rumor that Disney gets all of their soda syrup free from Coke as part of their sponsorship/vending deal. Something about it being a cheap way to get product exposure to a large # of people (guests). Anyone know if this is true?

Thanks for the welcome, Delsdad! I will take the beer, please. :cool:

Zazu, that's an interesting theory.... So what's the benefit of RFID over a barcode? Is it just that you don't need to manually scan something so it's easier for the guest to use?

I'm going pose as a vendor and contact ValidFill about their setup. It'd be nice to confirm for sure exactly what's going on here. I'll also ask them about a maintenance mode/manual override for the machines.

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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by CptnSkippy » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:23 am

I'd bet a soda (in a refillable mug from 2001) that it's just a serial number that does a lookup against a database that grants the permissions. If it's anything like the access control system I deal with, it'll have a main database that it checks against, but will load all currently active chips in a local database that it can check against in the event of connectivity loss.


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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by bookbabe » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:41 am

CptnSkippy wrote:I'd bet a soda (in a refillable mug from 2001) that it's just a serial number that does a lookup against a database that grants the permissions. If it's anything like the access control system I deal with, it'll have a man database that it checks against, but will load all currently active chips in a local database that it can check against in the event of connectivity loss.
LOL...my DH, who works in the circuit board industry, was literally just saying that exact same thing. The RF chips are used a lot in his industry for job tracking and such, and generally all that's on the chip itself is the number...it's the database that's the key element where all the "good stuff" is stored. You'd have to hack the database for a forged mug to be at all useful...and that seems a little extreme to me.

Personally, I've never been able to understand why buying the mug each trip is such a big deal for some of the Board X fanatics that get into flame wars on this subject. I mean, if you don't drink enough soda to make the mug worthwhile, then just buy drinks as you need them and skip the mug. And if it's because you think the mug is too expensive, then Disney isn't where you should be vacationing, 'cause EVERYTHING is expensive there...the mug is the least of your worries. There's also the option to skip drinking soda for a week, or bring your own to keep in your room, etc.

I get why people bring their old refillable mugs from a previous trip and try to use those again...that could be confusion about the rules, or just a "hey, i didn't get my money's worth last time so I want to now" kind of thing. I don't agree, but I can understand why they think it's okay.

I just don't understand why people think filling their big gulp or travel mug from home is okay. I mean, do they fill their Disney mug at 7-11 and walk out without paying?



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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by DonutGoddess » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:06 am

I made my husband try the Beverly. He had no idea what it was. He said it wasn't that bad.

It is a frustrating quandary. To buy the mug and just have 2-3 sodas (we don't spend a lot of time in the food court) or to pay the $2-3 for a soda? And I am starting to collect a lot of Disney mugs. I wish they still had different mugs for different resorts so I could have a different one for each place I stayed, as a souvenir. I have one from AKL, All-Stars, and Pop Century. And then a red one with Disney Characters and two of the current mug. Then again I am all for practical souvenirs. I just wish they'd get my Grumpy underpants back in.


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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by PatchOBlack » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:24 pm

Freak wrote:Seriously. I sort of wish that other places like fast food would get this tech too...I can't stand it when people ask for water cups and fill it up with Sprite or some other clear colored beverage OTHER than water. I see that all the time. I also see people bringing in their own cups to fast food places and just fill it up with soda. Irritating.
Heck, I remember from my fast food days that some would go ahead and get non-clear beverages and not even pretend they got water. There were also the folks who would buy one drink, then get a bunch of water cups and use the soda cup as a "pitcher" to fill the water cups. They just couldn't understand that, even though we offered free refills, it was only valid for one person using one cup.



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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by Main Streeter » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:14 pm

LeonardKinsey wrote:Goofyernmost, I heard a rumor that Disney gets all of their soda syrup free from Coke as part of their sponsorship/vending deal. Something about it being a cheap way to get product exposure to a large # of people (guests). Anyone know if this is true?
Yes, very true. Has little to do with cheap product exposure. All Coke products are provided to Disney as per an old lawsuit. Google it.



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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by hobie16 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:21 pm

Main Streeter wrote:Yes, very true. Has little to do with cheap product exposure. All Coke products are provided to Disney as per an old lawsuit. Google it.
Got a link?


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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by Goofyernmost » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:14 pm

LeonardKinsey wrote:Goofyernmost, I heard a rumor that Disney gets all of their soda syrup free from Coke as part of their sponsorship/vending deal. Something about it being a cheap way to get product exposure to a large # of people (guests). Anyone know if this is true?

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I suppose it's possible, but it would seem counter-productive to some extent. We all seem to forget that Disney and Coke are profit making entities. I understand the concept of loss leader and I think that it is possible that is how it was figured. Introduce Coke and Coke products to encourage sales. If you notice most of the mugs also have Coke ads on them, so that is probably a shared expense. Now if they don't sell new mugs in the quantities they needed to at least break even, then they will have and recognize a problem. I'm sure that Disney gets a major deal because of the massive exposure to the product, but I doubt that they would find the discount useful if they cannot make money from that situation. Again, remember it is a business, not a charity.

Places like Board X have run an incredible number of threads that talk about refillable mugs and there are so many posts that say that once you buy a mug it is refillable for life. It isn't true, but, let me tell you, people take that sentence and run with it. I think if Walt Disney himself came back from the dead for the sole purpose of explaining how the refill for duration is supposed to work, he would be completely ignored because some Disney Bus Driver or their Mothers second cousin said that they were told by their best friend that a CM said it was OK. People will believe what they want to believe and nothing else.

Well, it appears more than obvious now that Disney is aware of the abuses and is attempting to find a way to stop it. Do you think that will stop it? Maybe, but it won't be for lack of trying on the public's part. They just will not accept it and now feel entitled to a lifetime freebee even though it was never intended that way to begin with.


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Re: Refillable mugs

Post by Zazu » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:44 pm

LeonardKinsey wrote:Zazu, that's an interesting theory.... So what's the benefit of RFID over a barcode?
Well, short version = Guests are Stupid.

Long version = Bar codes have to be positioned in front of the reader with no fingers or schmutz in the way. The manpower it would take to assist guests who can't figure this out would cost more than the rest of the system. Also, optical readers have to be cleaned regularly, as dried cola will block the view. RFID, by comparison, works by proximity. You just have to get the mug close ("close" being adjustable), and it works.

OTOH, RFID doesn't guarantee the guest is holding the mug right-side-up. See short version above.


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