Actually, yes, I do think that people should be able to walk down the street wearing whatever they want and not get harassed. Why is that so radical? The fault of harassment is never the recipient's. It is always the choice of the one doing the harassing; nobody's clothing ever forced anyone else to open their mouth and say something dumb. Ever.Goofyernmost wrote:I don't think that women should be made into objects because of what they wear, but, to totally dismiss any blame for certain attentions from the victim is also unacceptable. As for different cultures, well, I'm referring to this one. I don't really care what thing floats the boats of other cultures. We live in this culture. Are they asking for it? Probably not in any traumatic way! Does drawing more attention to oneself then necessary leave one more vulnerable to what you call "harassment". I think it does. It's not a question of right or wrong, it's a question of reality.
If we are to lecture the inappropriate actions or comments from the harassers, do we at some point say to the harassed...stop putting yourself in that position? I have lived a long time and I can mention many, many women that have never been harassed in the manner because they never "advertised" in that manner. Are you saying that a woman should be able to wander about, in our culture, with breasts half (or better) exposed and butt cheeks hanging out the bottom of shorts way to short to be called modest clothing and that if a man makes a comment, they are the bad guys, and the woman is innocently being picked on. If indeed, as you say, they are totally unaware of what is going on, shouldn't someone say something to educate that individual to not be flagrantly putting themselves up as a target for harassment? There is also a definition of what constitutes harassment! What you call harassment, might not be even close for someone else. Physically attacking a female strictly because of what they wear is completely different from what we are discussing here.
In the original context of this thread why couldn't it be said that the man was minding his own business and the female, for whatever reason, was creating an uncomfortable situation for him. Can men not be a victim? Do they not have a right to express there concern over being made a victim, intentionally or not? Wouldn't you advocate a woman expressing when they felt uncomfortable? This entire situation, not just this particular one, is a two way street. Both sides need to accept responsibility for the role that they played in it.
In the case of Zazu, I never said he shouldn't have said anything. I have said from the beginning that I agree with him for saying something and getting her to stop. I disagree with his involving her sexuality (which he did, with the "you look like a woman" and "rubbing your body" lines), because it had nothing to do with the situation at hand. She wasn't harassing him; she just had too much energy and was bouncing all over the place. Therefore, I think all he should have addressed is her behavior, not her body. It's a pretty simple disagreement, and I think Zazu can take it. :)